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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 15/Nov/2006 at 12:19pm
That would be of great help because it is sometimes very difficult to get the subjective things in place.
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Quote xbox Replybullet Posted: 15/Nov/2006 at 1:18pm
There are n number of ways to cheat minority shareholders. Some of them are ugly but some have grey shade.
 Steps like insider trading, rumor mill, extrapolation of current earnings, boosting future, trading in secondary markets, non-core activity, dealing only with promotor group companies are some ugly deeds.
but steps like preferancial allotements (at cheap prices), delisting (and giving peanuts as comparied to burrent book value), owning IPR with group companies are some grey deeds.
I see lots of promotors acting on first list but there are quite  few companies who act on second list. It is easy to identity ppl from first list but second list promotor are most dangerous ppls.
Biggies like REL, Bharti, RIL are among second list promotors. This list is quite big.
 
JET does not won it's name. Promotor group company was owning it's name, which was transeffed to list company by shelling out millions of dollar.


Edited by vipul - 15/Nov/2006 at 1:24pm
Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.
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Quote xbox Replybullet Posted: 15/Nov/2006 at 1:21pm
There are n number of ways to cheat minority shareholders. Some of them are ugly but some have grey color.
 Steps like insider trading, rumor mill, extrapolation of current earnings, boosting future, trading in secondary markets, non-core activity, dealing only with promotor group companies are some ugly deeds.
but steps like preferancial allotements (at cheap prices), delisting (and giving peanuts as comparied to burrent book value), owning IPR with group companies are some grey deeds.
I see lots of promotors acting on first list but there are quite  few companies who act on second list. It is easy to identity ppl from first list but second list promotor are most dangerous ppls.
Biggies like REL, Bharti, RIL are among second list promotors. This list is quite big.
 
Quarel among Ambanis were motto to get preferencial offer/ market purchases at cheap prices. All that saga was done in a very polished way.
 
Bharti delisted earlier company which use to own current listed company and gave peanuts to shareholders of that time. 
Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.
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Quote johnnybravo Replybullet Posted: 19/Jun/2007 at 10:58am
Basantji,

How to take up a promoter activity like preferential allotment of (5-6% of total no. of shares)warrants , to promoter grp company at a price which is almost 5% higher than the CMP of the stock with the promoter having a right to one equity share at expiry of 18 months?

Interesting thing here is that the current promoter holding shall almost double (increase by 75%) by this.

Is this another way of diluting equity (warrants shall be converted to shares )and promoters increasing their stake effortlessly?

How much importance should a shareholder give to such an activity?

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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 19/Jun/2007 at 11:11am
ALmost all companies do this.Except for Infosys I cannot remember any other company which in its growth phase did not issue warrants to its promoters. Tatas did it recently with several of its companies the fine print is whetrher this dilution is happening at below market prices or not. Ideally it should happen at above market price with a 10% downpayment(non refundable) because it is like a call option really.
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Quote johnnybravo Replybullet Posted: 19/Jun/2007 at 11:46am
Thank you basantji,
how many such warrants as a percentage of the total shareholder capital
can the promoters issue to themselves? Is there any upper limit? This can be a simple way of amassing huge wealth for the promoters. Issue warrants and latter sell stakes and do this again and again!

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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 19/Jun/2007 at 11:54am
I do not think there is any upper limit but if promoters do it again and again equity will go up; eps will be diluted unless they can look at means to deploy this cash; and the stock price will tank!!!
 
Also warrants being issued at a discount is bad not the ones at a market price/premium which we can still get away with.
 
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Quote johnnybravo Replybullet Posted: 20/Jun/2007 at 1:06pm
thank you basantji,

I got what you are saying....So essentially the promoters take a termed-bet on the company by issuing themselves warrants...so if the company does well in the next 4-6 quarters they shall en cash those warrants...and if the company doesn't do well, they have nothing to loose!

So basically all this talk of promoter stake being too low is not that solid. Because in the long run the promoters can anytime increase their stake through such means.

A company that is growing at say 60%-80% bottom line can always afford to dilute equity through by issuing warrants to the tune of 5-10% of the total shares almost every year...And yet the promoters can easily and slowly increase their stakes.

Good thing here is that the promoter is willing to take a bet by buying the call option.
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