Reliance Capital - A play on Financial services
Printed From: The Equity Desk
Category: Investment Ideas - Creating winning portfolios!
Forum Name: Large Cap Blue Chips
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URL: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=934
Printed Date: 14/Apr/2025 at 9:56am
Topic: Reliance Capital - A play on Financial services
Posted By: deveshkayal
Subject: Reliance Capital - A play on Financial services
Date Posted: 03/Jun/2007 at 5:31pm
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Reliance Capital - A play on Financial services Rel Cap is one of the leading and fastest growing private sector financial services company.It is the largest asset management co in India.It also offers life insurance and general insurance products through its subsidiaries.It has sizable private equity and proprietary investments.It recently commenced its stock broking business and will soon start consumer finance and asset recovery business. CMP: 971 Market Cap: 23,860crs Asset Management Reliance Mutual Fund has a total Assets under Management(AUM) of Rs.59,143.47crs as on PMS AUM at end of FY07 - Rs.30bn Offshore Fund - Current AUM US $125mn General Insurance Pre-tax profit of Rs.224mn in FY07.It has approx.45mn retail customers including 35mn customers of RCOM and 5mn customers of REL.Retail business: 55%.Corporate business:45% Life Insurance Gross Premium for FY07- Rs.10bn Broking Reliance Money has 75,000 customers and more than Rs.500crs daily turnover happening.It has captured 1% of the total market share. It also distributes life and general insurance products,mutual fund distribution,maketing of credit cards.Only 4.9% of household savings invested in equity/equity related assets. Investments in listed and unlisted companies Adlabs Films 12,55,000 shares by way of Rel Cap and 20600000 shares by Rel Land Pvt.Ltd. Global Broadcast News 16,75,000 shares (6.27% stake)
Inox Leisure 3,34,000 shares at Rs.125.52
Kinetic Engineering 7,15,000 shares (14.13% stake)
Maxwell Inds 91,77,215 shares (14.55% stake)
Network18 Fincap 16,42,000 shares (5% stake)
Prime Focus 15,00,000 shares (11.79% stake)
RCOM 1,78,27,158 shares Rel Energy 5.79% stake was transferred to a group co.By this deal,they booked profits of about Rs.350crs. RIL 1,34,60,295 shares RNRL 1,64,93,158 shares (1.35%) Spanco Tele 35,50,000 shares (14.96%) TV Today 11.9% stake Unrealised gains of Rs.27.2 bn(consolidated) on listed investments as on Unlisted companies include http://yatra.com/ - Consumer finance and Asset Reconstruction business is yet to launch.Every subsidiary is 100% owned. One must visit this link http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=981&PN=1 - Reliance MF - Stock is better then the fund ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Replies:
Posted By: kaushalchawla
Date Posted: 03/Jun/2007 at 7:39pm
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"Every subsidiary is 100% owned."
Does that includes insurance arm as well.....i think a few days back we discussed that reliance cap does not have full equity in insurance arm. Please enlighten. ------------- Warm Regards, Kaushal |
Posted By: s_praharaj
Date Posted: 03/Jun/2007 at 7:45pm
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I was interacting with some of my friends, who are dealers and are constantly in touch with the stock, money and Fx market. All of them agree that junior Ambani is a great trader and they say he has expertise in feeling the pulse of the market.His expertise can be realised in only the business of Reliance Capital and that is the reason, why Rel Cap is doing so well.
In recent time he has acquired some stake in many companies, and if we see closely all of them are doing well. ------------- Shashi Praharaj |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 03/Jun/2007 at 11:04pm
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In recent time he has acquired some stake in many companies, and if we see closely all of them are doing well.
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I have updated listed investments by adding Inox..is there any other co. where Rel Cap has acquired stake..
I started this thread bcoz Kulmanji,Smartcat and myself are holding this stock.
Kaushal: As per Merill Lynch report,each subsidiary is 100% owned. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 03/Jun/2007 at 8:59am
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Margin Expansion is expected to lag revenue growth due to concentration on higher volumes,higher operating expenses as this businesses are in an expansion phase and lower income in the initial stages of the insurance business.
------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: vivekkumar_in
Date Posted: 03/Jun/2007 at 10:33am
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Deveshji, What can be expected from Reliance Capital in terms of CAGR for 3 yrs ? Can it do a 45% ? ------------- Often we forget there's a company behind every stock,and there's only one reason why stocks go up. Companies go from doing poorly to doing well or small companies grow to large companies. P Lynch |
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 03/Jun/2007 at 10:45am
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If it does a 45% CAGR its market cap would cross a trillion rupees- backed by an expanded PE!!! I think R cap should be more of a 35% grower with a possibility of higher growth if the market does well.
Remmeber Lynch in Beating the street. He said that if you are interested in a MF put that money in the AMC company of that MF. During this bull wave Rcap has been a 20 bagger and Rel growth has gone up some 10 times only!
With rel cap the only problem is its very close proximity to the general market movements but if the market falls so do all stocks so it does not make much sense to make that stock market linkeage a reason for not buying any company!
------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 04/Jun/2007 at 3:56pm
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Debt:Equity ratio is just 0.28, so marathon Ambani can easily acquire existing brokerage house..but will he be able to pay more to acquire the broking firm,i dont think so... ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 04/Jun/2007 at 5:51pm
I hold Reliance Capital because it seems to be the best way to take exposure to future growth in retail finance & insurance. My other option was Indiabulls Finance - but generally brokerages don't cover Indiabulls (because Indiabulls is their competitor). Reliance Capital is a well researched stock in comparison - suits my style of investing. For investors with higher risk taking capacity, Indiabulls Fin probably makes better sense.
While there might be a 30% CAGR growth in stock price, it might not be the case with EPS growth. The insurance holding is a bit complicated - Edel Cap says Reliance Capital owns 100% 'economic interest' in insurance arm but hold only 25% directly. The rest is held by an 'associate company' of Reliance Capital.
The increase in stock price will be because of increasing valuation of insurance and retail broking/finance businesses.
MF arm valuation is fairly easy. Mutual Fund houses are generally valued at 7% of AUM. The exact percentage depends on the mix of equity MFs and debt MFs.
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Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 04/Jun/2007 at 11:39am
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Devesh
Thanks for opening this thread.
I had almost forgotten about RelCap as fortunately I hold these shares in physical form. Demat mein hota toh.....? Mere andar ka Mungerilal pata nahin kya karta!
 Lage raho Anilbhai.... ------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 04/Jun/2007 at 11:43am
Physical form? Woh kya hota hain Kulman Ji? 
If you have 100 shares of Rel Cap, do you get 1 certificate or 100 separate share certificates? Since I've never seen a share in physical form, I think I've missed something important in my investing life.
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Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 05/Jun/2007 at 12:03pm
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You get 1 cert.
------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 05/Jun/2007 at 9:02pm
Smartcat, One more surprise for you!
Rel Cap holds 6.27% stake in GBN.I have updated the report.Marathon Ambani made the right move.He seems to be bullish on Media companies. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 05/Jun/2007 at 9:36pm
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------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 05/Jun/2007 at 9:38pm
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Ha Ha Ha!
I will update the same.Thanks. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 05/Jun/2007 at 10:21pm
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Devesh, when you talk about percentage holdings in these companies, do you mean that the asset management arm (Reliance MF) holds these shares? Or is it in the company's (Reliance Capital) investment portfolio?
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Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 05/Jun/2007 at 10:34pm
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These are Reliance capital holdings distinct from the AMC. ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 05/Jun/2007 at 10:50pm
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Devesh, you've omitted PrimeFocus whose latest holding shows some very interesting names. How could you miss this from your most fav sector?
------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards |
Posted By: kanagala
Date Posted: 05/Jun/2007 at 4:43am
Hi Kulman Ji, What is your opinion on prime focus. I am thinking of taking small exposure. Future looks very promising for this. |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 05/Jun/2007 at 10:07am
I thought Sonata Investments might be holding stake in Prime Focus. Thanks for pointing out. Marathon Ambani has stakes in most of the media companies.I think he has some stake in Balaji Telefilms also! ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: Rinku
Date Posted: 07/Jun/2007 at 3:33am
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Posted By: vivekkumar_in
Date Posted: 08/Jun/2007 at 10:11pm
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Is Reliance Capital a candidate for demerger at some point ? ------------- Often we forget there's a company behind every stock,and there's only one reason why stocks go up. Companies go from doing poorly to doing well or small companies grow to large companies. P Lynch |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 08/Jun/2007 at 10:49pm
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Management has said they are not looking at demerger as of now bcoz they have been in this business for just two years. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: vivekkumar_in
Date Posted: 08/Jun/2007 at 2:46am
Reliance Capital may sell minority stake
 Ashwin PunnenFriday, June 8, 2007 (Mumbai): Anil Ambani has been on a buying spree all these months picking up stakes in diverse companies through his financial services arm Reliance Capital. But now it seems he is looking for a buyer who will acquire minority stake in his insurance ventures. And foreign players waiting for a foothold in India are queuing up for a piece of the action. NDTV has learned that ADAG group company Reliance Capital is planning to rope in a partner for the insurance business. The group is likely to sell 26 per cent each in its life and non-life insurance businesses. ADAG is in talks with private equity funds and foreign insurance companies for the stake sale. Reliance Capital has however declined to comment on the stake sale plans. Unlike its competitors Reliance did not take the joint venture route for its entry into the insurance business and so far it has been quite successful in growing the business. But now the group wants to take its insurance venture into the next level and that's why it feels that a right partner could bring in cash and expertise especially for the life insurance business, which is capital intensive. Investment stage Reliance's insurance businesses are valued at around $1.2-1.75 billion and contribute about 25-30 per cent of the price of the Reliance Capital share. Reliance ranks second in general insurance and fifth in life insurance among the private players. For private insurance players like Reliance it is now the investment stage where they have to pump in money to build their distribution network and also meet regulatory requirements. It will take a while for many of them to break even in the life insurance segment though ADAG group is not short of cash it may want to realise value when the going is good and when other players like ICICI Prudential and SBI Life are also looking at diluting the group holdings. Source: http://www.ndtvprofit.com/homepage/storybusinessnew.asp?id=38774&template=&cache=6/8/2007%209:22:04%20PM - http://www.ndtvprofit.com/homepage/storybusinessnew.asp?id=38774&template=&cache=6/8/2007%209:22:04%20PM ------------- Often we forget there's a company behind every stock,and there's only one reason why stocks go up. Companies go from doing poorly to doing well or small companies grow to large companies. P Lynch |
Posted By: Vijkm
Date Posted: 08/Jun/2007 at 9:41am
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Hi Devesh,
Is indiabulls financial services or Relicance capital is better buy now for investment purpose? ------------- Vijay |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 08/Jun/2007 at 10:17am
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I think Indiabulls would be a good buy during correction.Indiabulls correct more than Rel Cap.If you can get Rel Cap at 930,than its a good buy,else stay away.. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 08/Jun/2007 at 11:35am
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Though I have no interest in any of them Rel cap is more diversified and stable whereas returns could be higher in Indiabulls. SO it is more of a risk reward game. ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: Vijkm
Date Posted: 09/Jun/2007 at 12:30pm
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Thanks Devesh & Basantji for the feedback. May buy indiabulls.. ------------- Vijay |
Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 11/Jun/2007 at 10:13am
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http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Reliance_Cap_wants_to_enter_i-banking/articleshow/2116439.cms - Reliance Cap wants to enter i-banking (ET)
Reliance Capital, the non-banking finance arm of the Anil Dhirubhai Ambani Group (ADAG), is planning to foray into investment banking to broaden its offerings in the financial sector.
The company, which has presence in asset management, retail broking and insurance businesses in the country, intends to start the investment bank in partnership with a foreign player, a person familiar with the development said. He, however, declined to divulge further details. Reliance Capital’s vice-chairman Amitabh Jhunjhunwala is said to be overseeing the initiative and the company has initiated talks to rope in key executives. A Reliance Capital spokesperson declined to comment on the development. An email query to the company did not elicit any response. According to bankers, Reliance Capital’s partner for the investment bank could be a foreign firm with no presence in India till now. Some of the names taking the rounds are the US-based Bear Stearns and Paine Webber. Investment bankers said Reliance Capital would provide the knowledge of local markets, while the foreign partner would bring in the technical expertise. The proposed launch comes at a time when there is a surge in capital raising activity in India, with several cross-border mergers and acquisitions (M&A) firming up. However, analysts tracking Reliance Capital are unsure about the value an investment bank could bring to its balance sheet. According to an analyst: “It will depend on the size of the venture (investment bank) and how they plan to go about the business. But as per the trend, the size of the operations can be significant.” Investment bankers from rival firms said Reliance Capital can have a significant presence in the investment banking business, given the fact that it holds minority stakes in various companies across sectors. They feel Reliance Capital could secure fund-raising mandates of these companies. ------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards |
Posted By: kaushalchawla
Date Posted: 13/Jun/2007 at 7:44am
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Through this i-bankiing, do they want to transfer idhar ka paisa udhar....i meant iski topi uske sar...(tranfering money from one company to other)...now that they have lot of public money thru AMC......
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How much trust can you folks have in Ambani?? ------------- Warm Regards, Kaushal |
Posted By: nav_1996
Date Posted: 13/Jun/2007 at 8:24am
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First thing I would like to understand how much they hold in Life Insurance. I am yet to get a clear picture.
Also, do they hold 100% in Reliance AMC. |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 13/Jun/2007 at 11:51am
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huh? By investment banking, they mean that Reliance Capital is now going to help companies raise equity (through IPOs and private placement) and debt (FCCB/ECB etc). Other activities include helping their customers acquire/merge with other companies.
Big investment banks like Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs etc trade in equities, currencies, commodites and derivatives (with their own money). Reliance Capital is already trading in equities anyway - take a look at their investment portfolio.
Each Indian MF is governed by independent trustees. So don't worry - Reliance MF won't use your money to further their investment banking business.
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Posted By: Kalyan
Date Posted: 14/Jun/2007 at 1:36pm
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George Soros holds more than 5% in Rel Cap ------------- kalyan |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 16/Jun/2007 at 11:45pm
Rel Cap holds 100% in all the business units...
UTI Sec projects Rel MF AUM for FY08 at Rs.74091 crs.(My guess is around 90,000 crs conservative fig.)
Currently banks are allowed to sell insurance policies of only one Insurance company.Rel Cap being a late entrant in this field does not have tie-up with any banks.
The company will employ part of its unrealised gains ie.1400 crs in consumer finance business.
For providing offshore investment platform to its customers it has tied up with CMC Capital partners of UK and Alron Global of US.
Consumer finance business in India stands at about 2-3% of GDP as compared to 25% in European market.
UTI Sec has a price target of 1366 based on FY09E. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: tigershark
Date Posted: 16/Jun/2007 at 9:37am
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it makes sense to remain invested in this co and not to pay much attention to the price trgts at least this time the price trgt is higher than the current mkt price.THE MKT FOR THIS CO IS HUGEAND CAN ONLY GET BIGGER WITH TIME.WITH AMC AND INSURANCE BEING THE KEY DRIVERS. ------------- understanding both the power of compound return and the difficulty getting it is the heart and soul of understanding a lot of things |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 17/Jun/2007 at 1:40pm
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Does consumer finance business have a long gestation period like insurance business? Or does it start making profits from year one?
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Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 17/Jun/2007 at 1:55pm
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I think this should be in the money right from the first day - the interest clock ticks faster then the taxi meter! ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 17/Jun/2007 at 2:19pm
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We are now tracking three companies in this business - Future Capital, Reliance Capital and Indiabulls. So I guess it makes sense to investigate deeper into this business. What are the risk factors involved? - Consumer finance loans are unsecured loans (unlike car or home loans). So if the company's risk profiling systems are not in place, there is a risk of NPAs piling up.
- Like banks, will these companies resort to equity dilution to raise funds for expansion?
- What will happen to their business when interest rates go up? Or go down?
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Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 17/Jun/2007 at 2:35pm
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Since tehy spread their bets so evenly across the chances of companies going bust are minimized. Now a person would default on his business loan first then on the two wheeler/home/consumer loan!!! ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 17/Jun/2007 at 11:14am
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The Insider says that Rel Cap is placing around 5% of its shares at Rs.1200 with a private investor.Further,The Insider has learnt that the company has applied for a banking license. (ET Investors Guide)
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I dont think there is a need to raise money as they have sufficient cash...If at all,that would be through their units,Rel MF,Insurance,etc..not through Rel Cap.. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 18/Jun/2007 at 12:01pm
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Marathon AMbani does not miss a chance when it comes to dilutiung equity! ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 18/Jun/2007 at 9:58pm
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Merrill Lynch has raised its price objective to Rs.1200 on the back of a 27% rise in life insurance venture and 66% rise in the general insurance value. Asset Management value raised by 11%.No change made to the value of Reliance Money.
Sum of parts valuation:
Life Insurance 532
General Insurance 99
AMC 152
Rel Money 85
Investments 111
Consumer foray 217 ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 19/Jun/2007 at 12:16pm
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From http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/news/business/we-must-learn-to-manage-large-cap-ac-flows-fm/286868/2 - Chidambaram's interview -
Since Reliance Capital doesn't have a firangi partner and doesn't seem to have difficulty raising capital, I think Reliance Insurance will grow at a faster pace than Max New York Life, Birla Sun Life etc. That's because the Indian partners who own 74% are either risk averse or don't have the capability to invest more money.
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Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 19/Jun/2007 at 4:24pm
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I think Reliance Insurance will grow at a faster pace than Max New York Life, Birla Sun Life etc.
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I think they are already growing at the rate more than Max and Birla,but no sure that when compared to LIC,ICICI.
Is something cooking in the counter.Market Cap is 26,517crs..getting expensive each day like Educomp! ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 19/Jun/2007 at 4:27pm
| hmm.. true. It is going up like a midcap company. I'm tightening my seat belts and will try to enjoy the ride. |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 19/Jun/2007 at 4:35pm
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Reliance Money is aggressive..they have opened 2270 outlets in a short period when compared to >640 of Indiabulls,>813 of Kotak,615 of Sharekhan. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: tigershark
Date Posted: 19/Jun/2007 at 9:42pm
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somebody has said on ted that mkt cap should be seen in conjunction with the scale of oportunity ------------- understanding both the power of compound return and the difficulty getting it is the heart and soul of understanding a lot of things |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 19/Jun/2007 at 9:58am
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Rel MF is in talks with the London fund house Schroders,Barclays and Royal Bank of Scotland for a tie-up on a reciprocal basis. The India-specific funds raised by the global partner from the overseas markets will be managed by Rel MF.The latter will raise funds from the Indian investors and these will be handled by the global partner.A Rel MF spokesman confirmed the talks with various global funds. (BS) ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 27/Jun/2007 at 10:33am
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Reliance Mutual Fund, the country’s largest fund house, is embarking on an expansion plan to double its branch network from the existing 300 in the next nine months. The proposed expansion is a part of the Anil Dhirubhai Ambani group’s aim to develop its business assets under management by 25 per cent to Rs 75,000 crore during the same time period. The fund house has 700 employees on its roll. (BS)
------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 02/Jul/2007 at 8:00am
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UTI Mutual Fund to go public by this fiscal end UTI Mutual Fund sponsors comprises State Bank of India, Punjab National Bank, Bank of Baroda and Life Insurance Corporation of ……..currently the fund house manages total assets of more than 40,000 crore. On proposal to manage government's pension fund of over Rs 1,500 crore, he said: "We will make one more presentation to Pension Fund Regulatory and Development Authority shortly and we are hopeful to be selected as one of the manager." Besides UTI AMC, the other shortlisted entities are SBI, LIC and IDBI Capital. Complete story http://www.financialexpress.com/latest_full_story.php?content_id=168866 - here on FE --------------------------
Anyone has an idea about how this (UTI MF) would be valued?
------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards |
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 02/Jul/2007 at 8:20am
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Equity assets are valued at 5%-6% of the net assets whereas debt is valued lower at 2% -3%. ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 02/Jul/2007 at 11:03am
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Rel MF AUM as on 30th June is at Rs.59,857crs.Just 1% increase from previous month. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 03/Jul/2007 at 1:03pm
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Who cares?
Reliance Capital is running up again because of this bit of news -
http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=380494&ssid=52&sid=BUS - Reliance Capital to infuse Rs 2,000 cr in life insurance biz
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Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 03/Jul/2007 at 9:49pm
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Reliance Capital to start consumer finance biz "We will start the consumer finance business shortly," Reliance Capital Chairman Anil Ambani said while addressing the shareholders at the company's AGM. While denying any move to become a bank, he said the company may consider promoting or acquiring a bank if policy permits. The company would also ramp up it work force to 50,000 in the next two years, Ambani said. Reliance Capital group company -- Reliance Money has emerged as the largest money transfer company in private sector recently. Reliance Money, an electronic transaction platform, offers wide range of asset classes. It provides a single window access to equities, commodity derivatives, mutual funds, IPOs, life and general insurance products, offshore investments, money transfer, money changing and credit cards. Source: http://www.financialexpress.com/latest_full_story.php?content_id=168969 - F. E.
------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 3:57pm
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Sharekhan on Rel Cap
"We believe the party has just begun; initiating coverage with an 18-month price target of Rs1,929. "  ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 4:06pm
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Actually it is thumps up to you and other TEDdies who initiated discussion on this stock before the SSKI! ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 4:11pm
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Sharekhan on Rel Cap
For listed investments, we have considered the market value and for unlisted investments, book value has been taken into account. Rel Cap has Rs.13.7bn invested in listed equities as on 30th June,2007. The market value of the listed investments stands at ~48bn,translating into unrealised gains of Rs.35bn,which is equivalent to Rs.143/share. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 4:15pm
Thanks!
Actually,i am quite surprised by this report of Sharekhan.They have shown details of every investment of Rel Cap. No brokerages have done this before! ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 4:21pm
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Yes, sski has been doimg some serious research these days and Rel cap does look like it could become really big. It has all scalable businesses AMC, brokerages,Insurance, PE etc.
Vipulji could add something here. ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 4:25pm
Devesh Ji - How do you manage to get your hands on these reports?  I am a Sharekhan customer and I can't find it anywhere. Is it somewhere under 'Research Home' -> Fundamental Research? |
Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 4:30pm
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As per some buzz in the market, Anil Ambani wants to build RelCap into something like Berkshire Hathaway!...i.e. insurance+ investments+operating businesses!!
Now it sounds like day dreaming, but who knows? ....strange things have happened in this world!
Sit back and enjoy the ride which will be very very bumpy for sure.
------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards |
Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 4:38pm
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Devesh Ji - How do you manage to get your hands on these reports?
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Devesh has a nice scuttlebutt approach which is very valuable indeed.
Usi pe ek gaana yaad aata hain....from Sippy's Shaan filmed on Mazhar Khan:
Aate jaate hue main sab pe nazar rakhta hoon
Naam Abdul hain mera sab ki khabar rakhta hoon!!!
------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 10:29pm
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Kulmanji, aapko har ek statement par gaana yaad hai !!
Smartcat, that report was from a friend of my brother who is working in ADAG.
Rel MF AUM for this month could be hit:
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1108250 - http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1108250
In another development, Anil Dhirubhai Ambani Group's (ADAG) financial distribution arm Reliance Money today said it has tied up with DTDC to retail its financial products by installing kiosks across the courier major's 4,200 outlets.
Reliance Money had earlier said that it was mulling tie-ups with large retail players with significant footfalls across the country. The customer base of the company has been growing by around 2,000 everyday, he said
Bandyopadhyay said the company was on the threshold ofimplementing a massive expansion programme, designed to have its footprint in 5,165 tehsils of the country by FY'08.
The company has plans, he had earlier said, to install additional 7,500 kiosks by the end of the financial year and ramp it up to 25,000 in the next two to three years. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 1:13am
Quoting from the SSKI Report -
This is what I like about the two Ambanis - they've got confidence, attitude and a healthy level of arrogance. Whether it is retail, telecom or insurance, the Ambanis do it on their own. |
Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 06/Jul/2007 at 2:22am
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Devesh ji, you have a pretty strong access to a goldmine. Share karte rahna...saare TED bhai ewam behen mil baat ke khayenga khana! ------------- The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 07/Jul/2007 at 10:34pm
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Details of Investment (As on 30th June)
Qty(mn)
Adlabs Films 21.9
Axsys Health 1.3 Celebrity Fash 1.2
ENIL 0.1 Global Broadcast 1.8
Infra.Devlp.Fin 10.0 Inox Leisure 3.0 Jyoti Structures 3.8 Kinetic Engg. 0.7 M T N L 5.0 Network 18 2.5 Prime Focus 1.5 Rel Comm 18.4 Rel Ind.Inf 0.2 Rel Inds. 9.4 Rel Natural 16.5 Shri Lakshmi 1.3 Spanco Telesys 2.4 Sparsh BPO 1.2 T.V. Today 6.9 Ventura Textiles 51.5 Overall,their investments seems quite good with portfolio skewed towards Media. There is something we are missing on MTNL. RJ,Nemish Shah and Rel Cap, three stars of market bullish on the counter says something... ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 07/Jul/2007 at 10:47pm
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In another development, Anil Dhirubhai Ambani Group's (ADAG) financial distribution arm Reliance Money today said it has tied up with DTDC to retail its financial products by installing kiosks across the courier major's 4,200 outlets.
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Rel Cap holds 44% stake in DTDC(unlisted). Good move by marathon Ambani!! ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 07/Jul/2007 at 10:49pm
I didn't understand this kiosk ka funda. How do you think this will work? 
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Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 07/Jul/2007 at 10:58pm
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I think they can expand quickly..They dont have to set up shops which takes time to build..Also,kiosks doesn't take much space,it can be set up anywhere,so customers can buy and sell on the move... ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 07/Jul/2007 at 11:05pm
| But Devesh Ji - whatever Rel Cap is selling - insurance, MFs, loans etc - it requires money to exchange hands, forms to be filled etc. What does one do infront of a kiosk? |
Posted By: CHINKI
Date Posted: 07/Jul/2007 at 12:57pm
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The way you can fill the form and transfer the funds from your bank account via internet, it should be the same via Kiosk. Neither you require any hands nor any forms to be filled.
Being a investor in their mutual fund, I keep getting a form to enrol for their Smart Money Card along with monthly statement. Once you have their Smart Money Card, it becomes like a credit/debit card. Insert that card in the kiosk, your details (personal as well as your investment)are already there. Just buy or sell units of any Mutual fund. No need to talk to any agent or their office. ------------- TOUGH TIMES NEVER LAST, BUT TOUGH PEOPLE DO |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 07/Jul/2007 at 1:27am
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Very interesting! |
Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 08/Jul/2007 at 8:20pm
Is there any kind of fee for the smartmoney card ? ------------- Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful. |
Posted By: CHINKI
Date Posted: 08/Jul/2007 at 12:29pm
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Naturally, there is no fee for it.
Make people to get used to use these smart cards. May be after some time, they may start charging for the same. ------------- TOUGH TIMES NEVER LAST, BUT TOUGH PEOPLE DO |
Posted By: xbox
Date Posted: 08/Jul/2007 at 5:29am
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Recently SSKI started coverage on RCL. I don't know why they took so much time for it. RCL is already sitting on huge rally in last few 2-3 months. It could have made more sense to identify stock while it was under-valued. But whom to complain...Brokerage house have very very strong own interest in their recommendation. Sometime back CITI recommended sell on Indiabulls to target 350. ------------- Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle. |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 08/Jul/2007 at 11:21am
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Sometime back CITI recommended sell on Indiabulls to target 350.
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That sell rating was not warranted..Most of Citi's call are buy nowadays..I hope they have learnt from their mistakes...
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DTDC plans to foray into warehousing space to cash in on the burgeoning retail sector. "Many international freight and logistics players are talking to us to be a partner in our proposed warehousing venture. Currently,we are evaluating their proposals." said DTDC Chairman. The 5000cr business offers oppurtunity for us as several retail chains have already approached us for warehousing facility,including Bharti,Tesco and Nilgiri Dairy." (ET)
------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: xbox
Date Posted: 08/Jul/2007 at 11:55am
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I hope they have learnt from their mistakes...
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Sorry!!. I beg to differ. It is not mistake. It is a game. ------------- Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle. |
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 09/Jul/2007 at 12:30pm
Yes, Citi did buy a huge chunk a few days post the release of the report ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 09/Jul/2007 at 10:19pm
George Soros-promoted fund and the US-based investment bank Blue Ridge will together pick up 21% in Reliance Capital's asset reconstruction business.
While George Soros will hold 11% stake in the company and Blue Ridge 10%, the three Indian partners — GIC, Indian Bank and Corporation Bank — will hold 10% each. Reliance Capital will have the remaining 49% equity. The initial investment in the business will be Rs 100 crore. The board of Reliance Asset Reconstruction Company has approved the investment and shareholding pattern of the company. The spokesperson for Reliance Capital confirmed the development. This is the second foreign investment in the asset reconstruction business in India after the government allowed FDI up to 49% in the sector last November. Barclays was the first foreign company to sign an agreement with ICICI to pick up 10% in Asset Reconstruction Company of India (Arcil). ARCs buy out non-performing assets of banks and then turn them around. Currently, Rs 65,000 crore worth of NPAs are lying with various banks. As of now, Arcil dominates the asset reconstruction scene in the country. Source: ET dated Nov 02,2006 ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 09/Jul/2007 at 11:45pm
Kya kare bhai ?Citi (ko) bajane ki buri aadat si ho gayi hai (pun intended ) ------------- Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful. |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 12/Jul/2007 at 10:46pm
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Reliance Capital will start Institutional broking through Rel Money from August 1st reports CNBC. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 12/Jul/2007 at 11:06am
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Prabhudas Lilladher has put a price target of Rs.1337 on Rel Cap which is reasonable.
------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: s_praharaj
Date Posted: 13/Jul/2007 at 11:31pm
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Today I received a report from SSKI on Reliance Capital dated 5th July 2007.
They have given a 18month price target of Rs.1929. ------------- Shashi Praharaj |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 13/Jul/2007 at 11:52am
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Those who are considering fresh buying in Rel Cap should stay away at these levels.My target for FY08 and FY09 are Rs.1350 and Rs.1820 respectively incorporating CAGR of 35%.. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 5:31pm
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Rel_Capital_Q1_net_profit_up_at_Rs_30243_cr/articleshow/2232784.cms - Rel Capital Q1 net profit up at Rs 302.43 cr
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Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 5:36pm
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STock does seem to have a long way to go but will an indivisual investor buy a 4 digit stock? ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 5:41pm
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Perhaps makes sense to buy when one is switching from a slow moving expensive stock (there are hundreds of such candidates) to a fast-moving expensive stock (Rel Cap).
I wonder if there were any sale of shares from Rel Cap's portfolio that spiked up their Q1 numbers?
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Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 6:04pm
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Perhaps makes sense to buy when one is switching from a slow moving expensive stock (there are hundreds of such candidates) to a fast-moving expensive stock (Rel Cap).
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Price movements can de deceptive. I guess you are talking in terms of sales and profit growth numbers. ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 6:09pm
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I heard they sold some/all not sure holdings in Reliance Energy not sure whether it is accounted in this quarter ? Any details?
BTW, Marathon ambani will do lot of cross selling for mutual funds/insurance etc thru the reliance money/reliance infocomm and is growing aggressively in broking business, insurance has done well and captured good market share.
Lets see Marathon or non marathon wins the race. ------------- India_Bull forever Bull ! www.kapilcomedynights.com |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 6:36pm
Didn't mean that initially, but now I do!  |
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 7:58pm
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I heard they sold some/all not sure holdings in Reliance Energy not sure whether it is accounted in this quarter ? Any details?
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Rel Cap sold off its entire holding in Rel Energy bcoz marathon Ambani wants to increase promoter holdings.Rel Energy is just going up and up...Dont know whether the capital gains from sale boosted profits..but overall excellent result!!!
It has surprised everyone with the stock price movement..Gone up 29% since we started this thread.. ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 10:36pm
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Whichever field these Ambani brothers enter, they want to be amongst top 3.
There is a rumour doing rounds that Anil Bhai's aim is to make it full-fledged bank by 2010! We shouldn't believe such unconfirmed reports at all.
------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards |
Posted By: vivekkumar_in
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 11:11pm
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No doubt about it Kulman ji ! ------------- Often we forget there's a company behind every stock,and there's only one reason why stocks go up. Companies go from doing poorly to doing well or small companies grow to large companies. P Lynch |
Posted By: vip1
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 10:48am
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If you are Running very long Distances after some time the Body is fatigued and in pain , then the mind takes over , . The marathon Ambani is very Tough and capable of delivering Good value to shareholders .
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Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2007 at 11:10am
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Anil Ambani has mentioned that if the policy permits, he would be interested in the banking space..Who knows post-2009 when the banking industry is opened, he might acquire some bank..But this kanjoos Ambani would not be ready to pay more...like Hutch His aim is to become Goldman Sachs or Merill Lynch of India and not Berkshire...thats why he is strengthing its retail...------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 12:45pm
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I have reasons to believe that Rel Cap won't acquire a bank - it will just start from scratch - similar to what Kotak did. There are very few banks that fits the profile and scale of something that RelCap would want to achieve.
UTI Bank might be a good choice but government owned LIC/SUUTI/GIC own almost 40% of the equity. It is not an easy takeover candidate for an outsider. Yes Bank's management won't sell. CBoP might be a good idea but it is still a small bank - RelCap won't get a significantly large headstart by making an acquisition. Most of other regional banks like Karnataka Bank/Bank of Rajasthan etc are not a proper cultural fit for Rel Cap.
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Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 11:03pm
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I also feel he wont acquire the bank...rather promote it..but it is definitely on his radar..
Meanwhile Reliance Capital has been voted as one of the MOST INVESTOR FRIENDLY COMPANIES by Business Today  ------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett |
Posted By: xbox
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 5:45am
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he wont acquire the bank...rather promote it
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Greenfield bank is very very difficult job. I guess nobody is interested in starting a new bank. All want to acquire bank & better the performance.
<<on a different note, ADAG is know for acquiring business not for stating a business>> ------------- Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle. |
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 10:48am
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QUestiuon is RCap needs a a bank that is spread all over the country and banks like dena, karnataka etc are localised but yes setting up branches from 0 is tougher then from 501!!! ------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 27/Jul/2007 at 12:21pm
Little bit of fineprint on RelCap's results -
http://indiaearnings.moneycontrol.com/sub_india/compnews.php?autono=294660 - Merrill Lynch is neutral on Reliance Capital
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