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Printed From: The Equity Desk
Category: Investment Ideas - Creating winning portfolios!
Forum Name: Emerging companies - Mid caps that can become large cap
Forum Discription: These are companies operating in growing markets having have certain niches or specific attributes like new sector plays. These are emerging multibaggers with high risks and high rewards.
URL: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=748
Printed Date: 19/Apr/2025 at 9:23pm


Topic: WWIL
Posted By: nikhil090
Subject: WWIL
Date Posted: 08/Feb/2007 at 10:25pm

This may be of interest. I think we need to start forum for WWIL separate from Zee.

Cas paves way for consolidation
 
By SIBABRATA DAS
Indiantelevision.com Team

(8 February 2007 12:10 am)

 

MUMBAI: The complexion of the cable TV industry is fast changing. Cas (conditional access system) is paving the way for consolidation as cable operators need to find money to subsidise set-top boxes (STBs), set up a digital system, and build a proper service network.

The might of the three big multi-system operators (MSOs) is prevailing with the weaker players tumbling down under in the markets opened for Cas barely a month ago. Delhi has already gone that way with Home Cable Network, Spectranet, Satellite Channels, Sanjay Cable Network and Star Broadband Services aligning with Hinduja-owned Incablenet, Hathway Cable & Datacom or Zee Group's Wire & Wireless India Ltd (WWIL).

 

Soon Mumbai's Cas subscribers will also get shared between these three MSOs. Raja Nadar, an independent cable operator, says his JPR Network will surrender its independent status and partner with an MSO by the end of this month. Though he has seeded 5,000 STBs, he is struggling to fund new arrivals and is losing subscribers to WWIL. "There is no business model left for us. We can't raise debt and even if we somehow do, we can't recover revenues large enough from our digital subscribers to work out a repayment schedule," he says.

Cas in Delhi and Mumbai is becoming a three-MSO battle. "That's the record for everybody to see. That's the reality. There were 14 independent headends in Delhi who had shown interest to operate but not one could launch. In Mumbai, it is the same story," says the head of a leading MSO on request of anonymity.

Making the ground tough is the fact that digitalisation is coming cheap in India. Cable operators are offering a subsidy of Rs 1000-1500 per STB while average revenue per user (ARPU) is set to fall with the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (Trai) capping a la carte pay channels at Rs 5. The revenue share is also regulated with broadcasters taking away 45 per cent while 30 per cent stays with the MSOs and 25 per cent with the local cable operators.

 

"Digital cable is a game for those who have deep pockets. Cable operators will not only have to subsidise the boxes but the service as well," says WWIL managing director Jagjit Singh Kohli.

If Kolkata has not seen enough of bulldozing, it is because there is not much of demand for STBs. But Sristi has crumbled down with WWIL and Manthan sharing the spoils. Cablecom is tottering but has survived.

As STBs pick up in Kolkata, Incablenet and Hathway will look at entering the market. This will pave the way for further consolidation as penetration will mean financing more boxes. Manthan has already raised a debt of Rs 100 million from individuals and is looking at another Rs 200 million as way of bank financing.

The need for pumping in big money will be larger as Cas spreads. In the initial phase, Hathway is arranging for a Rs 1 billion debt while WWIL wants to pump in Rs 7.14 billion over two years with a plan also to acquire last mile of cable operators.

What can be disturbing is that after the initial euphoria, the demand for boxes seems to be already slowing when we have just crossed 400000 in a Cas market which has over 1.5 million cable and satellite homes. "If this trend is true, it should be a matter of concern for all the stakeholders except the local cable operators," says Zee Turner CEO Arun Poddar. In the Cas areas, local cable operators are allowed to pocket the entire Rs 77 they collect from subscribers for the free-to-air (FTA) channels.

With not as many boxes moving, broadcasters are particularly worried as they were forced to drop the rates of their pay channels. The sector regulator has chalked out a policy that makes business sense only on high volumes. "We will need higher volumes to make up for the pricing policy prescribed by Trai. Besides, the boxes are not yet entirely synchronised with the subscriber management system that would register what channels are subscribed by the consumers. The whole project will depend on how fast and effective SMS gets activised," says Poddar.

A surge in demand for the boxes is expected before the ICC World Cup starts in March. Besides, marketing campaigns will have to be launched promoting digitalisation. "MSOs will have to start marketing the boxes more aggressively. Broadcasters can also launch joint campaigns with them," says SET Discovery president Anuj Gandhi.

Nobody knows how the market will finally emerge. But the trend is clear: smaller MSOs in the Cas areas will find it difficult to subsidise the boxes and will need to take support of the bigger ones.

"Consolidation can start with Cas and spread out in other areas. In many non Cas places, we are also seeing consolidation because of fear of losing subscribers to direct-to-home operators," says the head of a MSO.


Replies:
Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 09/Feb/2007 at 10:52pm
Link below
 
http://www.wwil.net/docs/TRANSCRIPT_OF_TELE_CONFERENCE_CALL_31JAN_07.pdf - http://www.wwil.net/docs/TRANSCRIPT_OF_TELE_CONFERENCE_CALL_31JAN_07.pdf

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 10/Feb/2007 at 8:55am
Cisco offers debt to cable operators, pushes Scientific Atlanta STBs
 
By SIBABRATA DAS
Indiantelevision.com Team

(10 February 2007 7:00 pm)

 

MUMBAI: Cable operators dry of cash for digital implementation can now look forward to Cisco Systems, Inc. The global networking equipment and network management giant is willing to finance cable operators in India as it sees opportunity in riding the digital cable wave to push its set-top boxes (STBs).

There is a catch, though: operators will have access to the loan only if they use STBs from Scientific Atlanta, the company that Cisco acquired to bulk up on businesses that cater to consumers.

The debt will be provided through its wholly owned subsidiary company, Cisco Capital.

Cisco has approached several small and medium-sized operators in the Cas (conditional access system) areas, offering a variety of financing options. "We are willing to provide soft loans to cable operators which can be paid over a period of time. This way we can push our digital end-to-end solutions including headend, encryption system and boxes," says a source in the company.

 

The loan size will depend upon the credit worthiness of the operator and the funding will be made available in phases. "We won't be funding the cable network in one go, but infuse it in several doses," says the source.

Cisco realises how tough it will be to evaluate the health of the cable networks. "Most of them do not have proper documents and it is difficult to rate their creditworthiness," the source adds.

Among the cable operators Cisco has initiated talks are Kolkata-based Manthan and JPR Network, an independent operator in Mumbai. But there are no takers yet.

"We are more interested in equity than in debt. As we will have to subsidise the STBs, it will be very difficult to recover and repay the loan. The average revenue per user (ARPU) from Cas subscribers is also low. Besides, Scientific Atlanta boxes are more expensive than what is available in China and Korea," says JPR Network promoter Raja Nadar.

 

Cisco, however, believes its end-to-end digital solutions and the pressure cable operators face to put quality infrastructure in place will drive in good business. "There is just a 20 per cent difference between what we provide and what others are offering. But we have a better system and bridge an end-to-end requirement," the source says.

Rajan Raheja-promoted Hathway Cable & Datacom and Asianet are using the Scientific Atlanta headend, STBs and encryption system, the source adds. Hathway, in which Star has a 26 per cent stake, already has seeded Humax STBs and uses News Corp-owned NDS encryption systems.

For Hathway, Scientific Atlanta is going to be a second supply vendor as the market for digital cable expands.

Cisco acquired Scientific Atlanta so that it could tap the rapidly growing cable, satellite and IPTV markets across the world.

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 14/Feb/2007 at 10:35pm
From indian express.
 
If this is the case below, then IPTV still has lot of ground to cover..
 

NEW DELHI, february 13: Television viewers in Delhi have reason to cheer. MTNL plans to increase the number of channels on IPTV (Internet Protocol Television) to 72 by the end of this month. Only 21 channels are available as of now. The company had recently scaled up services in Mumbai, where it now offers 100 channels.

 

MTNL had launched the service in November last year and has given 400 connections up till now. “ Once the number of channels go upto 72, we will market the scheme more aggressively. Our target is to give 5000 connections by the end of March and 50,000 connections by next year,” said A.K. Arora, executive director, MTNL.

To avail of the IPTV service, consumers need to have a MTNL broadband connection. Television channels are encoded in IP format and delivered to the television set through a Set Top Box.

IPTV offers several advantages over TV cable and satellite technologies. Along with airing channels, the service allows for time-shifted TV, which means consumers can watch programs upto a week old.

 

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 14/Feb/2007 at 8:54am
IOL Broadband is nearing the Rs 400 mark!!!

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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 14/Feb/2007 at 9:37am
I am not comfortable with IOL at this price now. It has runup too much too fast. When WWIL is available at 2200cr, then this one at 800 cr does not look attractive.
The growth potential may be huge but it will take time to convert.. They are also behind Dish Tv/Cable operator in terms of offerings..

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 14/Feb/2007 at 9:50am

I also hold a similar view but wanted to state the alternative view.



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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 14/Feb/2007 at 11:07am
WoW, Yeh to bouncer gaya ...
Anyone care to explain


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Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 21/Feb/2007 at 10:40am
Trai pitches for duty slash on STB components, seeks removal of entertainment tax on cable TV

By SUJIT CHAKRABORTY
Indiantelevision.com Team

(21 February 2007 8:00 pm)

   
NEW DELHI: The Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (Trai) has take up the demands of stakeholders in the broadcasting industry and recommended to the Finance Ministry that there is need for tax rationalisation. The chief amongst which is abolishing of customs duty on import of components for the local manufacture of STBs.

MSO sources tell indiantelevison.com that Trai has suggested to the ministry that it should ensure a level playing field in the interest of digitalisation of cable television, which has seen increased demand after the rollout of Cas.

For the benefit of the consumers, Trai has also suggested that Entertainment Tax also be abolished from the cable TV sector.


Trai has argued, as the MSOs had desired, that this is the only industry in which both service tax and entertainment tax are levied, the latter going to the state governments, and suggested that instead of the extra entertainment tax burden, there should be evolved a system of sharing a part of the service tax with the state governments.

These sources say also that Trai has for the first time written to the government of the reports the industry has been filing since the middle of January this year, that after Cas rollout, the interest in digitalised TV has vastly increased, and Trai says that there are requests from areas not covered under mandatory Cas for the same system being introduced.

The issues were discussed in a roundtable between Trai, the MSOs and other stakeholders earlier this month.

Trai has written to the government, sources requesting anonymity tell indiantelevision.com, that the stakeholders desire rationalisation of tax structure, because greater convergence in broadcast and telecommunication technologies in the near future would result in the distinction between the two services getting increasingly blurred.


Hence the need for a level playing field, which in turn could not be brought about without required rationalisation of taxation in the two sectors.

Trai feels that the current additional customs duty of 4 per cent on components of set top boxes and associated items like viewing cards should be abolished, just as has been done for the components and parts of cellular phones and mobile phones.

The Trai wishlist sent to the MoF, sources say, recommends the complete removal of basic customs duty on imported digital headend equipment from the present 12.5 per cent, to improve penetration in the country as a whole.

Trai says this is quite in line with the abolition of duty on import of STBs done in 2006.

The MSOs say that they had desired that though excise duty is currently levied on the transaction value of STBs, which are sold as packaged commodity, in the same manner as mobile phones, televisions and cameras, but wherever required manufacturers may be given the option for the scheme on which excise duty is levied on the basis of MRP, with an abatement of 40 per cent.

Presently, this is applicable to other packaged commodities, and Trai has sent this as part of the recommendation to the ministry as well.

In consonance with the wishes of the MSOs and other stakeholders, Trai has also suggested that the telecom department has demanded reduction of excise duty on telecom equipment to 8 per cent, and this same should be applicable to manufacture of STBs.

The stakeholders had told Trai that this would be necessary because with greater convergence of technologies, it would be tough to distinguish between the services.

There is another tricky issue on excise duty. MSOs say that the premises of the subscriber where the set top box is deployed should be treated as the extended premises of the service provider and the STBs at the premises of the subscriber be treated as the possession of the service provider.

This would enable them to avail a set-off of excise duty paid, against its service tax liability.


Posted By: praveenmbd
Date Posted: 22/Feb/2007 at 2:14pm
World Cup may see DTH firms double sales
Aminah Sheikh & Ashish Sinha / Mumbai/Delhi February 22, 2007
With the ICC Cricket World Cup 2007 round the corner, Direct-To-Home (DTH) players hope to double their subscription revenues in the first year to Rs 90-100 crore by selling around 300,000 connections in March alone.
 
This will mean an addition of 15 per cent to the existing DTH subscriber base of 25 lakh shared by Dish TV and Tata Sky. Even cable operators in areas under the conditional access system (CAS) in Mumbai, Delhi and Kolkata are hopeful of a 10-fold increase in subscribers because of the World Cup.
 
“Currently, 100-200 STBs are sold on a daily basis. However, as the World Cup nears, we expect to sell 1,000 STBs per day,” said Ravi Mansukhani, managing director, InNetwork Entertainment.
 
But DTH players are betting big on the World Cup. Currently the two players are acquiring 5,000-6,000 subscribers a day, with each subscriber spending Rs 3,500-Rs 4,000 for a connection.
 
To lure subscribers, both Dish TV and Tata Sky have announced special offers. For instance, Dish TV has floated a promotional price of Rs 3,990 valid till March 31, including its Sports Active service which allows for multiple screen viewing.
 
Likewise, Tata Sky is offering a three-month subscription free to subscribers who buy before April 15. Additionally, the company has signed up Bollywood actor Hrithik Roshan for a lucky draw contest in which 50 families will get to watch the finals in Mumbai with the film-star.
 
“We are optimistic that our rate of new subscriptions will increase two or three-fold,” said Anjali Malhotra, vice-president marketing, Dish TV. Dish TV’s subscription base stands at 1.8 million.
 
Even Tata Sky aims to get closer to its first-year target.
 
Said Vikram Mehra, vice-president, consumer marketing, Tata Sky, “We set ourselves the target of achieving one million subscribers in the first year of our launch. With the World Cup, we feel we may achieve it much ahead of our target.”

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 03/Mar/2007 at 1:05pm
I think in the long run distribution side of the business will also be attractive from returns perspective. WWIL will be a good play but it seems it is for the long haul. It will test the patience..DTH will give competition but India is a big country.. There will be opportunity for everybody..
any thoughts on this one?

Posted By: tigershark
Date Posted: 03/Mar/2007 at 1:25pm
now there is an added benefit to all this after the world cup is over people are not going to throw away the dish they will continue to watch their favorite programmes and like cigarrettes tv is addicting so generally all media and content companies should benefit directly or indirectly

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understanding both the power of compound return and the difficulty getting it is the heart and soul of understanding a lot of things

Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 03/Mar/2007 at 1:34pm
 like cigarrettes tv is addicting so generally all media and content companies should benefit directly or indirectly
 
-------------------------------------------------------------
 
I agree with this analysis by a Doctor.
 
 


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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 03/Mar/2007 at 1:38pm
Yes, both will survive but I would favour DTH since it is a newer technology but on the other hand cable can have additional features like broadband etc.

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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 9:03pm
HOw does WWIL look at current prices?? Now the market cap is around 2000 cr, down from a high of almost 3200 cr. I guess this is the effect of equity dilution..

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 9:16pm
It does look attractive no doubt but since the break even is 18 months away the stock should not run up in a hurry also I find greater visibility in the boradcaster that we keep discussing.
 
I think TRAI is holding a meeting on April 5 to extend CAS to all areas of the metros. That is what I saw on TV just a few minutes back.


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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 9:28pm
Saw it on NDTV profit sir? or CNBC?? hehe

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The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 9:30pm
CNNIBN- My eyes are where my money is!!!

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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 9:44pm

Haha! Yups, I bet!



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The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it

Posted By: catcall
Date Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by basant

CNNIBN- My eyes are where my money is!!!
 
And then there is a category of CNBC watchers who see "Get a Life" with AF with only one reason- hoping against hope for a wardrobe
malfunctionWink


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There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate-when he can't afford it and when he can-Happy investing!

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by catcall

Originally posted by basant

CNNIBN- My eyes are where my money is!!!
 
And then there is a category of CNBC watchers who see "Get a Life" with AF with only one reason- hoping against hope for a wardrobe
malfunctionWink
 
I read somewhere that this is done intentionally to get the viewer's attention. Good for the viewer good for the channelLOL
 
 


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 10:07pm
Heated meeting in Trai throws up packaging, billing issues

By SUJIT CHAKRABORTY
Indiantelevision.com Team

(22 March 2007 3:00 pm)

   
NEW DELHI: A heated meeting between the sector regulator, MSOs and broadcasters, which first saw the MSOs take a beating, ended with the regulator asking the broadcasters too, to get their act together and work out plans with MSOs regarding packages.

The MSOs in their turn have promised to settle the issue of billing on customer choice-basis by 30 March, and give daily feedbacks to the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (Trai) in the established format.

One of the MSOs has reportedly informed Trai that the data available from the SMS systems and the customer choice forms have been handed over to the broadcasters yesterday, and they have urged the latter to study it.

The MSOs have said in the meeting that the data would worry the broadcasters, as they clearly show that the channels which were supposed to be popular were not so, as reflected in the forms filled up by the customers.


Less than 25 per cent of old customers who had a free run of the channels have requested for channels that the broadcasters once projected to advertisers as 'most popular', as the picture seems to have emerged.

MSOs have assured Trai and the broadcasters present in the meeting that they would give full access to any kind of data on the SMS, for broadcasters to verify and satisfy themselves, and ask questions right down to individual customers and cross-check data, sources told indiantelevision.com.

On the issue of interconnection contracts, some MSOs have suggested that the arrangements should be worked out between them and the broadcasters, to which Trai had retorted that they have taken inordinate time, but nothing has happened.

MSOs have said that they would make an effort to sit down and if nothing happens, the regulator would be free to step in and take the needed decision.


MSOs held that, for instance, in the case of the recent series of cricket matches, various suggestions have been made to broadcasters to form meaningful packages, but the channels have stepped back on that.

Trai had asked for details of seeded boxes and customer choices from the MSOs in a consolidated form and most of these were handed over, with MSOs saying that they have no objection if broadcasters are given access to that.

The MSOs have admitted that some customers have not yet stated their choices in the forms, but the invoices for such customers can be worked out between the broadcasters and MSOs mutually, they have said.

On the issue of paybacks on per-customer basis, the broadcasters, sources say, had asked what the MSOs intended to do.

The MSOs have said that whatever data is there in the SMS and customer choice data handed over to the broadcasters, the latter would have the agreed share of their revenue.

What has been discussed is the issue of a modality for switch off for those customers who are stubborn about not putting in their choices formally on the forms. But nothing concrete has emerged out of this so far, sources said.

One of the MSOs have stated that they had in 2003, come to some agreement with broadcasters regarding this issue and Trai has asked the MSO to state clearly and in detail what such arrangements were.

The MSOs have reiterated their position, stating that Cas has thrown open a programming challenge in terms of packaging, and it seems, from reports emanating from yesterday's meeting, that the broadcasters would "per force, due to the recent SMS and customer choice revelations" be pulled into some kind of a meaningful engagement with MSOs.

The broadcasters have to work out what is best for them in the context of a situation in which Cas is a reality, extension of mandatory Cas is on the anvil and customers have shown that they have a mind that neither MSOs nor broadcasters have read in a manner that would have them do business in a liberalised, consumer-based economy.



Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 11:14pm
.....with AF with only one reason- hoping against hope for a wardrobe
malfunction..........
 
---------------------------------------------
 
LOLHa ha ha Tongue he he he!
 
Catcall....u r really great!
 
 
 
 
 


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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards

Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 24/Mar/2007 at 4:05pm
CAS or DTH /mandatory or voluntary throws up gr8 opportunities for WWIL, Dish Tv  and also indirectly Zee basket, it is only a question of how well  Zee Management grabs it Smile

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India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com

Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 24/Mar/2007 at 4:07pm
Dont expect too much from AF and Indian channels Smile.
 
It will take another 5 years to happen this on them..Have a patience.


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India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 24/Mar/2007 at 10:30pm
Consumers & Government to gain from cable TV upgrades
2007-03-23 16:30:50 Source : Moneycontrol.com
< ="http://202.87.40.52/promos/sponsor_news.js">

National economic gains from a new approach to investment in cable-TV infrastructure could deliver a 54.6 billion rupee (US$1.2 billion) increase in economic activity and 18 billion rupees in new tax revenues within five years, according to the Cable & Satellite Broadcasting Association of Asia (CASBAA).

However, even with a target of 20 million cable broadband subscribers by 2010, the India market would remain less than half the size of the China market which, like India, is experiencing national economic growth of more than 9% per year.

 “To achieve this goal we will need a new approach to capital investment in pay-TV, including abandoning the view that cable should be treated as a utility with commodity-like price controls. Today, the approach is more in-line with old-style thinking on electricity services or traditional political battlefields like print media,” said Anjan Mitra, the CASBAA Executive Director (India).

 “The fact is that if we don’t change our entire attitude to cable, we could suffer nothing less than a ‘digital failure’. However, if policymakers get the environment right, there will be huge rewards for the economy, first in the big cities, but then rolling out to the still needy rural areas.”

According to CASBAA, India’s cable TV networks are a huge national asset built over more than a decade by private investment. “We should recognize this important fact and use those networks to create significant new economic activity,” said Mr. Mitra. With around 70 million homes wired, cable TV already plays a bigger role in India than in any other major market.

CASBAA is a regional industry body representing 120 multi-sectoral players such as AsiaSat, Intelsat, Nokia, Sun Microsystems, IBM, CSM Sofres, Synovate, NDS, Standard Chartered Bank and PricewaterhouseCoopers, as well as the likes of Turner International, Walt Disney and HBO Asia. Other CASBAA members include regionally successful pay-TV and broadband operators such as PCCW of Hong Kong, TrueVisions of Thailand, Astro of Malaysia, StarHub of Singapore and ChungHwa Telecom of Taiwan.

During an Executive Briefing for CASBAA members and invited guests at the Cricket Club of India in Mumbai, the industry organization called on the Government of India to learn the lessons of telecoms liberalization and to let consumers decide “what they want to pay for cable TV services and what they want to watch. After that, for digital networks, it’s a matter of “build and they will come’.”

According to John Medeiros, the CASBAA VP for Regulatory Affairs and Government Relations, “digital broadband is changing the face of the economically crucial global communications sector and India will benefit hugely if it joins that revolution.”

Mr. Medeiros noted that global experience shows that while the adoption of digital TV may start slowly, the pace of change picks up quickly.

“The very nature of (digital) cable broadband provides consumers with more content choice and more price options; on-demand services become pervasive, allowing people to choose exactly what they want to watch and when, as well as yet more choice in terms of linear (traditional) TV channels.”

According to Mr. Mitra, the greatest opportunities for economic growth will only come when the investment climate is right for consolidation of India’s thousands of small cable operators in the big metros and rural areas which are then able to upgrade their last-mile networks. “Today, MSO cash flow – the bloodline of the communications business – is constrained, leaving the industry handicapped when it taps into the capital markets.”

 “The exciting experience of other countries – and already seen in the Indian telecoms industry -- is that domestic and overseas investors are ready and able to generate the large sums necessary to deploy cable broadband – if there is a chance of reasonable returns,” said Mr. Medeiros.

But most importantly, said CASBAA, “government funds are not needed to achieve these goals. What is necessary is a supportive environment.”

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 24/Mar/2007 at 10:33pm
With so many interested players in new channels, the distributors will have good demand..
 

Liberty looking to launch 4 channels in India

Indiantelevision.com Team

 

(24 March 2007 5:00 pm)

MUMBAI: Liberty Global, the largest owner of cable-television systems outside the US, is taking the channel route as its entry strategy into the Indian market.

While Liberty remains "excited" about the prospects of digital cable rollout in India, what is more concrete at this juncture are its plans to introduce a number of niche channels in the country.

Says Kamlesh Patel, Liberty Global director of strategy – India, about the cable major's forthcoming initiatives in the Indian broadcast space: "Women and men’s lifestyle channels separately, a cooking channel and a channel on international theatre are four genres amongst the several we are looking at."

Asked to elaborate, Patel says, "We believe that digital penetration both through DTH and cable is going to generate a surge in demand for content in certain genres. The consumer is going to demand quality programming. We have a strong track record of launching channels around the world and are currently working on plans with local broadcasters to assemble certain niche channels aimed directly at the Indian market. Naturally we would like to maximize the synergy with local partners through our existing content library and cable networks."

Queried as to whether the channels Liberty was planning to launch would be restricted solely to addressable platforms, Patel says, "Not necessarily, as it depends on the genre."

And what of the current status of Liberty's plans to enter the cable arena? Patel offers, "We remain excited about the prospects of digital cable rollout in India and continue to monitor and talk to all the leading MSOs in the industry. We are currently reviewing a number of plans with certain groups who have made some interesting developments in this area. 70 million cable homes are here to stay and grow, although a relaxation of the regulatory environment would help accelerate investment."

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 24/Mar/2007 at 1:06am
These foreign biggies provide significant direction as to where the industry is moving. CLearly they would not invest billions in an area of uncertainity - digitization process seems to be on track at least the bigger guys do seem to think so.

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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 24/Mar/2007 at 1:57am
Yes, I also think that slowly we are seeing global players putting significant stakes in the industry...not just as investments in any stocks BUT investments in the actual operations.
 
However, I think as you said Basant sir sometime back...we need to see how the CAS and DTH figures PAN out after March. I think you said we would have a better idea after that right?


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The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 24/Mar/2007 at 2:21am
That April 05 meeting is crucial between TRAI and MSO's for extending CAS across all the four metros. If that happens then we would have a some solid direction for sure.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 24/Mar/2007 at 2:28am
Thank you sir for the confirmation. Fingers crossed till then and eyes shutting for now...off to sleep now(with your permission that is and if no new reports for my viewing pleasure) Wink 

-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it

Posted By: vnstks
Date Posted: 26/Mar/2007 at 9:23pm
Rights issue plan for WWIL has been dropped..

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 26/Mar/2007 at 10:24pm
I was infact never sure why they wanted to go for Rights issue after clearing the QIP issue at 122/-.. Thankfully they have dropped the rights issue and hopefully will raise all themoney from QIP.. I hope that they will be able to raise the money at the earlier issue price of 122/- since the share has fallen significantly since then..

Posted By: jstk
Date Posted: 26/Mar/2007 at 11:34am
Hathway Bhavani ( bse code : 509073 ) is also worthy of keeping on the radar & making a small investment. The company is the largest cable operator in the central & eastern suburbs of mumbai ( dadar TT , sion, chembur, kurla, ghatkopar ) and have expanded to powai, khopoli. They are into cable tv distribution and cable ISP.
 
Equity is 8 cr
 
it is part of the Rajan raheja group  ( Exide, Prism cements, H&R Johnson)through :
Financials
The company’s financial performance has been lackluster. For the year
2003-04, the company clocked Sales Revenues of 6.0 crores and ended
up with a Net Loss of Rs.95 lacs. For 9 months ended December 04, the
company has achieved Sales Revenues of Rs. 5.33 crores as against
Rs.4.69 crores for the same period in the previous year. The Net loss
has increased from Rs.46 lacs to Rs.71 lacs. The company has an
Equity Capital of Rs.8.0 crores.
Outlook
The implementation of Conditional Access System (CAS) will throw up
big opportunity for the Cable Distribution companies. The stock of
Hathway Bhawani being the listed cable distribution company could
catch the fancy of investors.
Hinduja Group company IN Cablenet had placed its Equity with Intel
& Zee TV’s Siticable had offered stakes to private investors and these
were done at reasonably good valuations. Against that the market cap
of Hathway Bhawani at just Rs.8.0 crores looks too low.
The possibility of Star TV taking a direct stake in the company or
increasing its stake through HCDPL cannot be ruled out. This would
give Star TV access to a quality cable TV network, helping it push its
Internet products via broadband. Besides, it will also give Rupert
Murdoch's Star TV arm leeway to take on rival Zee Network in content
and distribution.
After Subhash Chandra bought out News Corp in three local joint
ventures, which included SitiCable, Murdoch did not have a cable
delivery network. Ground distribution would be an important handle
for Star TV to expand into the Internet and broadband delivery,
besides providing a sound platform for distributing its group of
channels.
Rajan Raheja Group companies Hathway Cable & Datacom Private
Limited (HCDPL) and Hathway Media Vision Pvt. Ltd. (HMVPL) are
involved in similar businesses. Infact, HCDPL is a very large player in
Cable & Internet business and has a national presence. To exploit
synergies in operations and for strategic and tactical reasons, it makes
immense business for the group to bring these entities into a single
fold. Being one of the largest organized players in the business, this
would help them to cash in on the opportunities in Internet and Cable
TV business. Any move towards consolidation will be a big trigger for
the stock and can catapault the stock into a different orbit.
Worldwide, Cable & Internet distribution companies enjoy high
discounting and with a few right moves by the management, Hathway
may not be an exception.
A word of caution - The stock is currently traded in the ‘Z’ Group on
the BSE because of statutory and compliance issues. – is therefore
advised for the HIGH RISK investor. Hathway Bhawani is a stock for
the long term investor with an appetite for risk.
Ashish Chugh is an equity analyst and investment consultant based at New
Delhi, INDIA. At the time of writing this article, he and his firm have a
position in the stock recommended above. He invites readers to send him
email
and
welcomes
comments,
feedback
&
queries
at
This report has been prepared solely for information purposes and the
information contained herein may not be deemed to be and investment
advice. Such information is impersonal and not tailored to the investment
needs of any specific person. The views expressed may change. Whi le the
information contained therein has been obtained from sources believed to
be reliable, no responsibility (or liability) is accepted for the accuracy of its
contents. Investors are advised to satisfy themselves before making any
investments and should consult with and rely upon their own advisors
whether and how to use such information in making any investment
decision. Neither the author nor his firm accepts any liability arising out of
use of the above information/article.
 
Datacom Private Limited (HCDPL) holding 24% stake, Hathway
Media Vision Pvt. Ltd. (HMVPL) holding 24% and Hathway
Investments Limited (HIL) holding 3%. The Rupert Murdoch promoted
broadcaster Star TV holds 26% of the paid up equity capital of
HCDPL.
The Indian public holds roughly 38% in the company.
Financials
The company’s financial performance has been lackluster. For the year
2003-04, the company clocked Sales Revenues of 6.0 crores and ended
up with a Net Loss of Rs.95 lacs. For 9 months ended December 04, the
company has achieved Sales Revenues of Rs. 5.33 crores as against
Rs.4.69 crores for the same period in the previous year. The Net loss
has increased from Rs.46 lacs to Rs.71 lacs. The company has an
Equity Capital of Rs.8.0 crores.
Outlook
The implementation of Conditional Access System (CAS) will throw up
big opportunity for the Cable Distribution companies. The stock of
Hathway Bhawani being the listed cable distribution company could
catch the fancy of investors.
Hinduja Group company IN Cablenet had placed its Equity with Intel
& Zee TV’s Siticable had offered stakes to private investors and these
were done at reasonably good valuations. Against that the market cap
of Hathway Bhawani at just Rs.8.0 crores looks too low.
The possibility of Star TV taking a direct stake in the company or
increasing its stake through HCDPL cannot be ruled out. This would
give Star TV access to a quality cable TV network, helping it push its
Internet products via broadband. Besides, it will also give Rupert
Murdoch's Star TV arm leeway to take on rival Zee Network in content
and distribution.
After Subhash Chandra bought out News Corp in three local joint
ventures, which included SitiCable, Murdoch did not have a cable
delivery network. Ground distribution would be an important handle
for Star TV to expand into the Internet and broadband delivery,
besides providing a sound platform for distributing its group of
channels.
Rajan Raheja Group companies Hathway Cable & Datacom Private
Limited (HCDPL) and Hathway Media Vision Pvt. Ltd. (HMVPL) are
involved in similar businesses. Infact, HCDPL is a very large player in
Cable & Internet business and has a national presence. To exploit
synergies in operations and for strategic and tactical reasons, it makes
immense business for the group to bring these entities into a single
fold. Being one of the largest organized players in the business, this
would help them to cash in on the opportunities in Internet and Cable
TV business. Any move towards consolidation will be a big trigger for
the stock and can catapault the stock into a different orbit.
Worldwide, Cable & Internet distribution companies enjoy high
discounting and with a few right moves by the management, Hathway
may not be an exception.
A word of caution - The stock is currently traded in the ‘Z’ Group on
the BSE because of statutory and compliance issues. – is therefore
advised for the HIGH RISK investor. Hathway Bhawani is a stock for
the long term investor with an appetite for risk.
Ashish Chugh is an equity analyst and investment consultant based at New
Delhi, INDIA. At the time of writing this article, he and his firm have a
position in the stock recommended above. He invites readers to send him
email
and
welcomes
comments,
feedback
&
queries
at
This report has been prepared solely for information purposes and the
information contained herein may not be deemed to be and investment
advice. Such information is impersonal and not tailored to the investment
needs of any specific person. The views expressed may change. Whi le the
information contained therein has been obtained from sources believed to
be reliable, no responsibility (or liability) is accepted for the accuracy of its
contents. Investors are advised to satisfy themselves before making any
investments and should consult with and rely upon their own advisors
whether and how to use such information in making any investment
decision. Neither the author nor his firm accepts any liability arising out of
Hathway Cable & datacom (26%), Hathway media vision (24%) & hathway investments (3%).
 
interestingly Star TV owns 26% of Hathway Cable & datacom .
 
Financials are not exciting.......for 9-months ended dec 07, company has made a NP of 25 lakhs on a revenue of 8 cr.
 
The company is currently avaibale at a price of Rs.16 /market cap :13 cr.
 
CAS is liley to be implemented in its are of operation soon (govt. meeting on april 5 as per news reports)
 
future listing of  the parent co / consolidation could provide a huge impetus to the stock.
 
jayendra
 
 
 
use of the above information/article.


-------------
If you buy for a non-value reason, you will end up selling for a non-value reason.

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 27/Mar/2007 at 4:18pm
JSTK: the below article from business standard is spinning a different story from AC's story
 
ChrysCapital to buy 12% in Hathway Cable for $60 million
Reena Zachariah / Mumbai March 27, 2007
Private equity (PE) major ChrysCapital was close to picking up about 10-12 per cent stake in Hathway Cable owned by the Rajan Raheja group for $60 million, sources close to the development said.
 
K Jayaraman, MD and CEO, Hathway Cable & Datacom, said, “It is very premature to talk about it right now. We haven’t finalised on the party so far.”
 
Following the PE entry, Raheja’s stake will be reduced to about 62-64 per cent, while Star TV will continue to maintain its 26 per cent holding in the company.
 
However, sources said talks were at an advanced stage and the deal was likely to take place shortly. This is the second PE deal in similar business in recent times. In January, Singapore-based PE fund Temasek Holdings bought 10 per cent stake in TataSky, the joint venture between the Tata group and Star TV, for Rs 250 crore.
 
The deal comes at a time when the battle between Conditional Access System (CAS) and Direct-to-Home (DTH) is hotting up. Companies offering the two platforms are going all out to lure prospective consumers with promotional schemes and a variety of hardware financing options, which require deep pockets.
 
“We are in talks with a few players. The funds would be used for expansion of its CAS business and also to launch voice over internet protocol (VoIP) services by the year-end,” a company source said. An agreement to this effect will be signed shortly.
 
ChrysCapital manages $1 billion across four funds. The Delhi-based PE fund’s investment portfolio includes Idea Cellular, UTI Bank, Suzlon,Yes Bank, Moser Baer and ING Vysya Bank.
 
I think it would be very good for WWIL valuations.. IF Hathway is valued at $500 million, then WWIL should be worth much more..

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 27/Mar/2007 at 4:18pm
CLSA has a buy on ZEE

Posted By: praveenmbd
Date Posted: 10/Apr/2007 at 10:53am
SEBI says no to WWIL's QIP plan, asks for six-month wait
 
By SIBABRATA DAS
Indiantelevision.com Team

(10 April 2007 10:00 pm)

 

MUMBAI: Wire & Wireless http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr130.php# - The Zee Group's demerged http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr130.php# - - company , which got listed on 10 January, wanted to come out with a QIP at Rs 122. But regulations require a six-month wait from the listing date as the pricing of the issue is arrived at based on an average during this period.

 

For the same reason, a preferential issue of convertible warrants to Jayneer Capital (a promoter group company) translating to five per cent of the company's existing equity could not be undertaken. The conversion price at Rs 122 per share (higher than the average for fhe first two-week listing period) would have meant that the promoter group would have put in Rs 1.31 billion for this.

"The promoters hold 43.79 per cent (till 31 December) in WWIL and would like to hike it up to 51 per cent. But SEBI wants a six-month wait from listing even for the proposed QIP issue as it is a regulatory requirement," says a source close to the company.

 

WWIL was also considering a rights issue but decided against it because it would take a longer time. The company would have to submit its audited results, file the document and wait for regulatory approval. "If WWIL was to go ahead with the rights issue, it would have had to wait till September. For a QIP, it can do it earlier. The company is most likely to decide on this as a fund raising option," the source says.

The QIP issue would help WWIL fund its expansion programme including digitalisation and acquisition of cable operators. WWIL has aggressive plans to expand its http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr130.php# - - cable business and had earlier projected a fund requirement of Rs 7.14 billion over two years.

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 10/Apr/2007 at 11:06am
Intreresting. How is Network 18 coming out with a Rights issue then?

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: praveenmbd
Date Posted: 10/Apr/2007 at 11:20am
Originally posted by basant

Intreresting. How is Network 18 coming out with a Rights issue then?
 
In QIP six months market data is required but no such requirement in case of rights issue.

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 10/Apr/2007 at 11:46am
Did not know that. Thanks for updating.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 14/Apr/2007 at 7:34pm

This decision can be a big blow to revenues of WWIL.

Trai says Rs 77 of FTA to remain with LCOs, WWIL to approach TDSAT
 
Indiantelevision.com Team

(14 April 2007 5:30 pm)

 

NEW DELHI: Annoyed with the Trai order on revenue sharing of the basic service tier (FTA), the Zee Group's http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr205.php# - - company WWIL has decided to appeal to the Telecom Disputes Settlement Appellate Tribunal because "this order is against the interest of justice".

Trai has ruled that the Rs 77 that the subscribers pay for watching FTA channels would remain entirely with the Local Cable Operators. WWIL and other MSOs feel that this is a travesty of justice, especially because LCOs are getting a huge, two-thirds of the total revenue from the combined tariffs for FTAs and pay channels.

The Trai order (No 11-34/2006-B&CS, dated 13 April, says: "The issues raised by the stakeholders have been examined in-depth… and the rationale for revenue sharing framework in the Regulation by the Authority is unassailable. The arguments advocated by the stakeholders are untenable."

 

It has also said that the revenue sharing CAS regulatory framework has only become effective from December 31, 2006.

"It is premature to challenge the basic tenets outlined by the Authority at this stage, because both the multi http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr205.php# -

Arvind Mohan, executive vice president of WWIL told indiantelevision.com: "Trai did not consider even the basics of our argument. We and also Incable presented a three-year projection on this issue. That too has been disregarded."

 

Mohan says Trai has assumed that the take from each Cas home would be around Rs 175, taking into count the FTA charges, revenue from about an average of 15 to 17 pay channels that people seem to be taking, plus taxes.

Besides, LCOs would also get 25 per cent out of the pay channels.

Mohan argues that this would leave the MSOs with as little as 15 per cent of the total revenue from one home, whereas broadcasters would get around 18 per cent and leave the rest, two-third of the total revenue in the hands of the LCOs.

The broadcaster's expenses remain the same, so does that of the LCO, argued Mohan.

"It is we who have to make the expenses, set up headends, purchase and give STBs on rent, which means we buy them cash down and get the money back incrementally over five years. Is this revenue sharing justified?" Mohan queries angrily.

Trai had originally issued a consultancy paper in this issue, and after the stakeholders had put in their responses, Trai had held a meeting on this issue on March 6.

In this meeting, WWIL had said MSOs ought to get 40 per cent of the FTA revenue arguing that "It would be appreciated that compliance with the Quality of Service regulations not only requires major capital expenditure, but also recurring expenditures.

"The stipulated revenue share of 30 per cent for MSOs (from pay channels) is totally inadequate and insufficient to meet the recurring and variable costs associated with the provisions of the services," Mohan had argued.

But Trai has not changed its earlier position and given the entire Rs 77 from FTAs to the LCOs.

Trai had in its order discussed three issues, after taking into consideration the points of views of all the stakeholders on them.

The first issue was, what should be the share of multi system operators (MSOs) and cable operators out of subscription charges for basic service tier? The basis for arriving at the distribution proposed should also be given.

Trai has said on this issue that among other things, that only one MSO out of 26 approved MSOs has claimed before TDSAT that the stipulated revenue share of 30 per cent is insufficient to meet the recurring/ variable costs

Trai did not heed the LCO demand that if there is a sharing of basic service tier revenue then they should get a share of the carriage fee, which as of now goes 100 per cent to MSOs, saying this would lead to frequent disputes since there is no transparent way of knowing the revenues.

The Authority held also that Siti http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr205.php# - - Network Ltd. had been requested many times to furnish copies of its annual accounts, business model and other calculations on the basis of which revenue sharing proposal had been made by it.

"No information was furnished by it in support of its claim regarding revenue sharing proposal made by it."

The second issue considered by Trai was what should be the share of MSOs and LCOs out of the 55 per cent that they would together get from pay channel revenue.

The third issue was, what should be the share of multi system operators (MSOs) and cable operators out of carriage fee, and the basis for fixing that share.

One interesting observation on carriage fees by Trai is that although the channel carrying capacity of the http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr205.php# - This is because, as the FTA channels would continue to be carried in analogue mode.

In fact there is a likelihood of getting carriage fee from more FTA broadcasters who may want their channels to be carried in digital unencrypted mode after introduction of CAS.

Therefore, Trai;s argument seems to be that MSOs already have a distinct area of revenue generation that cannot be touched by the LCOs, as per the original interconnection regulation orders of Trai that stand till date.

Besides, Trai has also said that digitisation opens other revenue areas for MSOs, like interactive services, http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr205.php# - Trai has concluded: "The issues as well as the inputs received from the stakeholders have been examined in detail.

"The analysis of the issues and inputs do not give anything totally against the Revenue Sharing Formula specified by the Authority for service providers in CAS notified areas.

"Therefore, the Authority is of the view that the Revenue Sharing Formula for service providers in CAS notified areas need not undergo any change at this point of time."

Posted By: praveenmbd
Date Posted: 19/Apr/2007 at 6:25pm
WWIL: Trai order defies revenue projection, obsolescence of carriage fees
 
By SUJIT CHAKRABORTY
Indiantelevision.com Team

(18 April 2007 3:00 pm)

 

NEW DELHI: WWIL is all set to file its rejoinder, to TDSAT, over the Trai decision to keep MSOs out of sharing the basic tier (FTA) revenue.

The Zee Group cable franchise has drawn up a three-year revenue model which shows that after investing of Rs 713.4 million, MSOs would earn Rs 55.3 million, whereas LCOs, making nil investments, would walk away with Rs 500 million http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/wwil_revenue.htm - (Click here for details) .

The case will come up for hearing on 30 April, and WWIL is determined to get the order reversed. A WWIL official told indiantelevision.com that if TDSAT had once sent back the original regulation for review by Trai, it must have felt that it was inadequate or something was wrong with it.

Meanwhile, Roop Sharma, president of the Cable Operators Federation of India told indiantelevision.com: "If needed we shall take the issue up with the court giving our version, but if Trai has sent back the original model intact, it has made up its mind that that model was correct."

The MSO has also said, in a document made available to indiantelevision.com, that Trai itself had said that "carriage fee" is a temporary and nebulous feature and may vanish under a digital, addressable regime such as exists in Cas.

 

Interestingly, Hinduja Group cable company InCableNet has also filed a three-year projection of revenue with Trai. InCable, in its response to the Trai consultation paper on revenue sharing, had supported WWIL and demanded a 40 per cent share from the basic tier.

While issuing its order last week, Trai had said that under its original revenue sharing formula, MSOs have the benefit of 100 per cent of the money coming from 'carriage fees', but WWIL had in its response to the consultation paper on revenue sharing held that carriage fee is a temporary issue.

 

WWIL has said: "It is submitted that against an apparent Zero investment by cable operators, they will take approx. 80 per cent of the revenue share (approx. 50.16 crore out of approximately 62.61 crore).

"Broadcasters with Zero investments will get approx. 11.5 per cent of the revenue share (approximately Rs 7 crore) and MSOs with an investment of Rs 71 crore i.e. Rs 6-7 crore more than the total revenue, are to get only aproximately 8.5 per cent of the revenue share."

WWIL's revenue model assumptions have been made on the premise that a subscriber on an average would opt for about 15 pay channels in the CAS notified areas.

The assumption, in fact, is in conformity with the actual choice made by the consumers in CAS notified areas of Delhi, Mumbai and Kolkata, where the average subscriber is choosing only about 15-16 pay channels.

Accordingly, it says, the revenue projections submitted by the company reflect the actual potential earning from pay channels http://indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr261.php# - - stream as well as the basic tier revenue stream by the multi system operators / cable operators.

The MSOs has sought to do away with the misgiving, as it put to indiantelevision.com, that it would be getting additional revenue from carriage fees. In fact, it has shown that Trai itself has said it is a temporary phenomenon.

The presentation by WWIL has quoted the Trai amendments effected by TRAI to the Interconnect Regulation on 4th September 2006:

"Regulation of carriage fee in the present circumstances is very difficult as it also implies regulation of positioning. In different parts of the country, there are different viewership patterns. The capacities of cable networks also vary a great deal. Thus, the levels of carriage fee are different in different parts of the country depending upon demand and supply gap.

"Presently, there are more than 6000 multi system operators, which follow different systems of accounting. Payment of carriage fee is very often done in cash or in kind. Thus, it is not possible to find out the actual payments being made towards carriage fees. The carriage fee is a temporary phenomenon and is likely to disappear with the advent of http://indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr261.php# - - cable systems."

Reiterating that carriage fees were a phenomenon of the analogue mode, as there was limited carrying capacity (roughly 60 to 70 channels)

Hence, it says "It is very well known in this industry that it is only when a new channel is launched that its broadcaster makes efforts for the carriage / placement of the channels on the analogue non-addressable system by making certain payments to the networks which carry those channels."

Besides, it echoes Trai's own statement that There is no standard or yardstick for the charges which are paid by the broadcasters for carriage of their new channels by the cable networks.

WWIL holds that at any given point of time, say if there are more than 150 channels to be carried on analogue technology in a non-addressable system, it may only be for 15 per cent to 20 per cent of the new channels that make efforts for carriage of their channels by payment of ad hoc amounts.

It says that under Cas addressable digital system, when a typical MSO headend can easily carry up to 600 channels, if not more, "no one would be fool enough to even consider paying a carriage fee, even if an MSOs is fool enough to ask for it," a senior WWIL official told indiantelevision.com.

 

Posted By: praveenmbd
Date Posted: 21/Apr/2007 at 3:51pm
Encryption issue: WWIL CEO, COO arrested, released
 
Indiantelevision.com Team

(20 April 2007 9:25 pm)

 

MUMBAI: Wire & Wireless India Ltd (WWIL) CEO Jagjit Singh Kohli and COO Major General (Retd.) CL Anand were arrested and released on bail today for allegedly not encrypting the digital signals of pay channels under the conditional access system (Cas) regulations.

 

The case was registered under the jurisdiction of MM Joshi Marg police station in Mumbai and investigated by the social service branch.

 

Confirming his arrest and subsequent release on bail, Kohli said: "I am surprised that the police have taken such an action against the seniormost executives of the company for a frivolous and unfounded technical complaint. We are fully complying with the provisions of the Cable Act as well as the Cas regulation."

Multi-system operators (MSOs) operating in the Cas areas are required to encrypt signals so that subscribers can only view and pay for the channels they select.

A source in the http://indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/apr/apr296.php# - - TV trade says WWIL had not encrypted signals in the past but corrective action has been taken. After the introduction of Cas in the notified areas of Delhi, Mumbai and Kolkata, some cable operators took time to encrypt signals.

 

Posted By: psimajin
Date Posted: 21/Apr/2007 at 4:01pm

From what I have understood of WWIL business model it will be difficult to compete with DTH Service provider.

 
As historically cable have  been unreliable now with STB required for encrypted signals wont it be better for consumer to move on to DTH with similar pricing.

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 21/Apr/2007 at 4:10pm
That is the worry but 67% of US homes still use cable. Maybe the reason is they did not get the option of cable with DTH but Cable will need serious support from the Govt. as mandatory CAS will drive its growth but cable can also provide value added services like broadband etc so the mediums will grow independently but I am more comfortable with Dish personally.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 21/Apr/2007 at 4:12pm
I am glad they arrested the CEO. This would ensure that the Last mile operators do not play foul!!!
 
PS: Kohli ji we are in full sympathy with you but kya kare CAS ke liye kuch bhi karega!!!


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: b_kothari2001
Date Posted: 21/Apr/2007 at 12:59pm
Hi Basant ji,
 
One reason for using more Cable connection in USA is, you will get Broadband Internet connection very much cheaper.
It is true for myself also.
 
I have cable & Internet connection from ComCast, it is the largest cable company and the largest Internest service provider in the United States
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast
 
Cheers,
Bharat

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 21/Apr/2007 at 10:19am
Kothariji thank you for that info. Peter Lynch in his book "One up on Wall Street" indicates quite piquantly how he missed Comcast!!!

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 22/Apr/2007 at 12:02pm
South Mumbaikars were getting pay channels for free by WWIL....

-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 22/Apr/2007 at 12:26pm

What a shame. Good thing (surprisingly) the police acted on time!!!



-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: jsangoi
Date Posted: 25/Apr/2007 at 5:36pm

how many people in india will bewilling to pay 300- 400 per month on dth?in cas people can decide how much channels they want to see and pay.i think in longer term people will realise the benefits of cas.

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 25/Apr/2007 at 6:14pm
Hello! Welcome to TED!
 
Presently 70 million tv sets are on cable.DTH is targetting a portion out of this market who are already paying.Also 25 million people are added to the middle class each year.So in the enxt 5 years that demography will change as well.
 
More then a 100 million people do pay Rs 300 for mobile phones!
 
Please introduce yourself on this thread!
 
http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17 - http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17


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Posted By: jsangoi
Date Posted: 03/May/2007 at 8:48am
should i sell wwil shares and switch to dish tv

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 03/May/2007 at 9:13am
Timing I am not aware but if I had to hold one I would hold Dish Tv.

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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 08/May/2007 at 9:08pm
at what price wwil becomes attractive? Fallen very significantly. Now valuation close to 1700 cr, almost 1/3 of dish tv.
 
Somehow I am still convinced that this business, once regulatory pathway becomes clear, will deliver good growth.

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 08/May/2007 at 9:41pm
About valuation this is probably the best but remember this one has an indefinete timeline unlike DIsh which continues to grow unabated.

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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 23/Jun/2007 at 3:53pm
Jagjit Singh Kohli quits WWIL, Deepak Chandnani comes in
Friday - May 25, 2007
Televisionpoint.com Correspondent
Wire and Wireless India (WWIL), formerly SitiCable, the cable and digital distribution company of the Zee Group, is seeing a major churn with the exit of its head and cable strongman Jagjit Singh Kohli and the induction of Deepak Chandnani as the new Chief Executive Officer (CEO).

The parting has not been a clean affair with the two sides trading charges. The official statement from WWIL quoting company Chairman Subhash Chandra says that Kohli "set up the initial foundation for the digital cable business, but he wanted to move on for personal reasons."

However, cable franchisees said there was unhappiness with Kohli as there was very little carriage fees or subscription revenue coming in. "While Rs 3-4 crore per month was being paid out to pay channels as fees, more than a lakh of set-top boxes were distributed in CAS areas that have not been accounted for," a WWIL source said.

Denying this Kohli claimed his strategy was for aggressive expansion in Mumbai that made WWIL the largest cable network in the city. Kohli, with over a decade in the cable distribution business, joined Siticable around two years ago to give the cable network an aggressive edge.

Pace Net, a broadband network promoted by Kohli, was to be merged with the Wire & Wireless as part of the deal. According to Kohli, differences had been brewing for the last three-four months.

"The understanding was that Pace Net would get a 10 percent stake besides 2 percent for myself. While the company was ready to give my 2 percent, the Pace Net stake never got resolved." Jagjit Singh Kohli said.

Kohli said he would be setting up his own cable distribution company in about four-five months. "I am not a Pied Piper, but the cable operators will follow me," he said.

Posted By: kaushalchawla
Date Posted: 23/Jun/2007 at 8:29pm
What is the main reason it has gone down like anything? Is there a deteoriation of business fundamentals?

-------------
Warm Regards,
Kaushal

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 23/Jun/2007 at 8:42pm
The business fundamentals have not picked off nothing has changed since it got listed.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: kaushalchawla
Date Posted: 23/Jun/2007 at 9:17pm
Basantji,
 
Then why its market cap has come down from 2600s cr to 1600cr...any particular reasons?
 
At what rate is it a good investment? And how much growth to expect from it?
 
Thanks.


-------------
Warm Regards,
Kaushal

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 23/Jun/2007 at 9:57pm
The other ones like DIsh Tv etc are better!

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: mayurm
Date Posted: 23/Jun/2007 at 12:15pm
Dear Basantjii,

I am new user in this chat.
We have wwil available at a mcap of 1450 cr while dish tv at 4400 cr.
If we see in usa, cable penetration is 70  % whereas dth is 25  %.
Also with internet penetration increasing in india, cable will offer internet connection to their existing customers at a lower rate but dth cannot at such a low cost.
Also quality of video in dth gets affected by weather?

Sir,what is the reason that makes you believe that dth will be more successful?

Thanks.

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 23/Jun/2007 at 9:37am
You make very relevant points but we need to understand that unless the Govt. mandates CAS WWIL will not budge so it is more of a waiting period game.
 
As far as I know in US we did not have these two technologies running side by side so cable came first then it was followed by DTH hence the lower conversion.
 
About the weather part I understand that would improve otherwiese in Europe during times of snowfall we would have no TV!!!
 
The market cap of WWIL is really compelling but the question is about playing that waiting game which could extends to years! I intend to visit a TRAI conference on CAS sometimes in July and would be in a position to inform if cable will indeed be mandated by the Govt. If that is so WWIL, should do well otherwise not.
 
Also WWIL runs on a three tier structure. Broadcaster > MSO? Last mile operator > COnsumer whereas in DTH it is just a two way structuire broadcaster > DTH operator> COnsumer!!!
 


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: muralimohan001
Date Posted: 24/Jun/2007 at 2:04am

Last year millions of Americans switched from cable TV to satellite TV.

Why? When you compare satellite TV to cable TV you'll discover the main reasons are cost, picture quality, program choices, and customer satisfaction.

Let's check out the differences ...

Cable vs. Satellite TV Fees

<> Cable TV fees across the country average $39.99 per month. In our area the cost for cable TV is $37.30 a month for 64 channels, plus $10.95 a month to add digital channels. Installation in one room is $39.95, plus $9.95 for each additional room.

<> Satellite TV fees from Dish Network are $31.99 per month for 60 channels, while DirecTV charges $41.99 per month for 115 channels. Both satellite TV providers currently offer free satellite TV equipment and free installation in up to four rooms.

Cable vs. Satellite TV Programming

<> Cable TV in most areas offers almost as many channels as satellite TV, and is broadcast in analog (over-the-air) format. If you want to have digital picture and sound you'll have to pay an additional fee, usually $10 to $15 a month.

Satellite TV offers more channels than cable TV (more than 250 channels), and more HDTV (high definition TV) programming. All satellite TV channels are broadcast in digital format for the highest quality picture and sound.

Cable vs. Satellite TV Equipment

<> With cable you only need cable boxes that connect the incoming cable line to your televisions. There is usually no charge or rental fees for cable boxes, however, If you want a digital video recorder, you'll have to pay an extra fee.

<> With satellite TV you need a satellite TV dish and TV receivers. Both Dish Network and DirecTV offer that equipment, plus installation, for free. Dish Network will give you a DVR (digital video recording) receiver or an HDTV receiver at no charge, while DirecTV charges $49.99 for DVR receivers and $299 for HDTV receivers.

Cable and Satellite TV Reliability and Customer Satisfaction

<> Cable TV outages average 3% to 5% per year. J.D. Powers and Associates ranks cable companies as good to poor in customer satisfaction.

<> Satellite TV outages average about 1%. J.D. Power and Associates has ranked the two satellite TV providers -- Dish Network and DirecTV -- higher in customer satisfaction than any of the cable TV companies for the last five years

The Bottom Line

If you only watch a couple of shows a week, and you live in an area where you can't get over-the-air TV and cable TV costs less than $20 per month, then cable may be your best option.

If, on the other hand, you want the biggest variety of shows, movies, sports, and news for the least amount of money ... you want to watch your all your shows in digital video and sound ... and you want the option of watching them in HD format and recording them on a DVR receiver, then satellite TV is what you're looking for.

Article Source: http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Brian_Stevens -

 



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If money is your hope for independence, you will never have it. The
only real security that a man can have in this world is a reserve of
knowledge, experience and ability.

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 28/Jun/2007 at 12:23pm
WWIL has declared it 4QFY07 results. On sales of 66 cr, they have made a net loss of 81 crores including a provision of 56 crores. Other income contributed +12 crores..
 
One more quarter of consistent losses..

Posted By: manishdave
Date Posted: 28/Jun/2007 at 6:36am
Dish has one more advantage other than high quality. If somebody is living in Chennai and wants to watch Punjabi channel, cable operators won't have enough customer base to offer. DTH won't have that problem and they can charge extra (may be some premium) for that channel. Such clients may not be huge but it is niche.

Posted By: kaushalchawla
Date Posted: 12/Jul/2007 at 8:05pm
Basantji,
 
After attending the conference, how do you view DishTV and WWIL? Which one deserves investment? or should the investment be done in some ration like 60:40? Please advise.


-------------
Warm Regards,
Kaushal

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 12/Jul/2007 at 8:55pm
Only DIsh Tv!!!

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: kaushalchawla
Date Posted: 12/Jul/2007 at 9:21pm

May i know why you have opted out WWIL? Any particular advantage that DISHTv has over WWIL?



-------------
Warm Regards,
Kaushal

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 12/Jul/2007 at 9:44pm
http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=748&KW=cable&PID=27582#27582 - http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=748&KW=cable&PID=27582#27582
 
http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=966&KW=cable&PID=25450#25450 - http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=966&KW=cable&PID=25450#25450


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: kaushalchawla
Date Posted: 12/Jul/2007 at 9:57pm
Thank you Basant ji.

-------------
Warm Regards,
Kaushal

Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 12/Jul/2007 at 12:00pm
I went out of WWIL last week, after suffering reasonable losses. One lesson learnt is that it takes far more courage and conviction to hold on to a position for long term. It is easy to say that we are long term players but actually very difficult to follow. Also the noise in the market affects the conviction. therefore my take is , dont track prices every day at all. just follow the story.

Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 12/Jul/2007 at 12:20pm
 Also the noise in the market affects the conviction. therefore my take is , dont track prices every day at all. just follow the story.
 
-----------------------------------------------
 
As Deepinsight's tagline says: It is very simple....but not easy!
 
 


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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 04/Sep/2007 at 2:22pm
I have slightly different view on the subject. I think in the long run, this one will do much better than Dish tv or TATA Sky. I pay 240 for my cable and 1000 Rs for my broadband.
I think this one is suffering from Regulatory issues and some execution problems. Moreover Dish has 3 times the mkt cap with lesser eventual potential. If one has 3-4 year horizon, I think this might be the biggest multibaggers in the mkt. Current valuation of 1200 cr has even gone below the replacement value.
To be able to offer both broadband and TV is a huge plus. I think once Subash Chandra gets his focus on this one and TRAI stops playing spoilsport, this one is a dark horse. This one looks to me the best UPSIDE/DOWNSIDE potential stories in the mkt.
Stock mkts can correct multi year neglect pretty quickly. My vote is on this one and not DISH.
I am looking to buy a lot of WWIL as soon as I free some of my capital. I see a potential 100 bagger in this one.
 
 
Luke
 
Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things--Adam Smith
 
 

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 04/Sep/2007 at 2:38pm
I also think that this is a potential multibagger but at present am unable to quantify the "how" aspect of it. The Govt. is nearing election and Chandra is busy in greener pastures but as you said this one does look to have potential.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 04/Sep/2007 at 2:49pm
This one has a another kicker with IP telephony (which will eventually be commonplace). Though I agree with not being able to see how, I just think one needs to be in this one.
 
Luke
 
Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things--Adam Smith

Posted By: Shreyas
Date Posted: 04/Sep/2007 at 4:36pm
How does one view this vis a vis the technology which DTH offers. e.g. I understand that watching news on DTH platform could be personalised, to watch just the headlines or a particular frame from a multitude of frames offered by the broadcaster at the same time. Also a movie can be ordered and paid for on pay by use basis. While a lot of this may not be currently offered, wud the cable biggies be able to match the DTH on the technological front ? Also which one requires less of subscriber related capital investments ?

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 04/Sep/2007 at 5:18pm
What ever you can do on DTH, you can do with Cable and more. What is even more interesting is with more and more apartments coming up, DTH would be limited by the direction of the Dish. I remember, when I was in US, one of the DTH guys told me you can't have Dish installed as the direction of my apartment was not right. I am not sure if this is true in India. What is more, Cable is laid out all over the country. all that is needed is to convert them to reported subscriber nos.
 
Cable offers 3-4 times more potential than DTH (limited to TV only). What is needed is execution and regulatory help which I think will come eventually or Cable guys(MSOs) will buy a lot of LCOs (local cable operators).
 
I am ofcouse biased but I think for the right reasons.
 
Luke
 
Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things--Adam Smith
 

Posted By: dilip
Date Posted: 08/Sep/2007 at 9:48pm
Should i enter at current levels ?


-------------
Dilip

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 09/Sep/2007 at 11:48am
I think so but this could test your patience. It has come down from 120 to 50. Though I don't think it should go down any further but you never know. But I think if you can hold for 3-4 years, it should be a spectacular story.
If you are conservative, look out for their quarterly results. If you see signs of increasing revenues, then you can jump in. You might lose initial bump but can be sure things are in order.
 
Luke
 
 
Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things--Adam Smith

Posted By: Gorden
Date Posted: 18/Oct/2007 at 1:23pm
Stock up 20%...Smile

-------------
LIVE FAST DIE YOUNG & HAVE A MARKETABLE CORPSE

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 18/Oct/2007 at 2:10pm

I think today it is moving because of TRAI recommendation of 76% FDI in HITS technology and no revenue share with the goverment.

This is the first ever big upmove by the stock (hopefully many more to come). It has tested patience of investors like me (I entered at 100). Don't know if the advance has legs but let us hope so.
 
Luke

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 19/Oct/2007 at 2:32pm
Here is why the stock moved up yesterday:
 
http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage.php?autono=301595&leftnm=3&subLeft=0&chkFlg - http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage.php?autono=301595&leftnm=3&subLeft=0&chkFlg =
 
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Telecom/TRAI_for_74_FDI_in_HITS/articleshow/2468688.cms - http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Telecom/TRAI_for_74_FDI_in_HITS/articleshow/2468688.cms

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 19/Oct/2007 at 4:27pm
For those holding this stock or following this one, I think now may be the right time to buy into this one because:
1. Valuation of 840cr is cheap enough for their already existing set up.
 
2. With HITS, they will be able to convert the analogue cable customers to Digital ones quicker. HITS provider will supply the channels thru transponders (Same as DTH) to Cable operators and MSO (multiple systme operators) and they supply to subscribers. Thing to note is cable subscriber will need a set top box to receive channel (same as in CAS & DTH).
3. Thing to see would be execution but I think it has reached a point where downside is really limited.
 
My initial holding was at 100. I have added some more at 38-40 range. Looking to add more as more capital is freed.
 
Luke

Posted By: Shreyas
Date Posted: 19/Oct/2007 at 7:43pm
DTH reaches directly to the consumer vis a vis HITS where the cable operator has do still invest in last mile wire line. This cud mean more costs and therefore more fees to the end user.
 
Any technical advantage of HITS over DTH ?
 
Also how is HITS different over the existing disk antenna set up? Aren't  both directly reaching the MSO via sattelite ?
 

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 19/Oct/2007 at 10:30am
The big advantage is Cable is already set up all over India. Only conversion to Digital is required where as DTH involves fresh customer acquisition.
DTH guys can't supply to a cable operator while HITS can.
Not too sure how MSOs do it currently but HITS was being touted as the big thing.
Though some was saying you could receive Internet via DTH, I am not too sure that is the case so cable guys have this advantage of being able to provide Internet over Cable unlike DTH.

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 31/Oct/2007 at 10:29am
Interesting article for the WWIL Investor (rare breed):
 
 
http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage.php?autono=302815&leftnm=4&subLeft=0&chkFlg - http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage.php?autono=302815&leftnm=4&subLeft=0&chkFlg =

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 31/Oct/2007 at 10:59am
Shuchi Bansal has been closely covering the media sector for over 3 years now. A very astute journalist who can mix business sense with her writing skills I have had a chance to talk to her over phone and at that time she did seem bullish on broadcasting though she did not think that we could have mandatory CAS.
 
 


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 31/Oct/2007 at 11:16am

Even I think mandatory CAS is still some distance away but I don't think you can go wrong with 740cr mcap

"HITS can offer VOIP, Broadband, Telephony and much else without any extra wiring"--Jawahar Goel

This is what excites me about WWIL. I know it is an uncertain how it will pan out but I am betting sooner or later it will happen.

Luke

 

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 31/Oct/2007 at 11:20am

Absolutely agree on the market cap thesis but when you have RPL going up 10% every day no one is interested elsewhere. It takes courage and conviction to cut out the noise and get to the basics of investing.

Personally I think that at present valuations the distributors offer better potential then the broadcasters.
 


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 31/Oct/2007 at 11:29am
RPL is getting the Reliance premium. I really don't see myself investing in RPL. Single refinery even when working the best possible will have limits of how much money it can make. And that too in a cyclical commodity business.
Luke

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 31/Oct/2007 at 11:54am

I share the same view on the character of such businesses but I wanted to present  a case as to what market movements can do to the psyche of investors.

Poeple are lapping up all stocks that are making a move. I did the same thing in 2000 where I sold BEML and BEL for the K-10 stocks. I made a huge amount of money the portfolio went up 5 times in about one year but finally I lost 90% of the invested capital.
 
I am not saying that any of the leading stocks would face that eventuality but sharing a thought as to what chasing prices could lead us into.
 
But different opinions make a market!
 


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: shivkumar
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2007 at 12:07pm
luke,

rest assured that Internet can be offered via the DTH platform. DishTV has already signed up for this service way back in 2001 or so when it applied for license. they may launch when permission comes from TRAI,etc.

Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2007 at 12:07pm
I sold BEML and BEL for the K-10 stocks. I made a huge amount of money the portfolio went up 5 times in about one year but finally I lost 90% of the invested capital.
 
During this time, how were non-software type stocks like L&T, RIL, ITC were doing? Was it rangebound, going up steadily or going southwards?

Posted By: johnnybravo
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2007 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by shivkumar


rest assured that Internet can be offered via the DTH platform. DishTV has already signed up for this service way back in 2001 or so when it applied for license. they may launch when permission comes from TRAI,etc.


Shivkumar, just wanted to know whether this is technically feasible and whether this has worked in other parts of the world? I see a tremendous bandwidth limitation here...and with ever increasing bandwidth hunger offering internet through DTH (which is a wireless service) is going to be challenging...
The converse - IPTV or triband as they call it shall be much more acceptable since its finally through cables/fibre.

I am still interested in knowing the tech. that goes behind offering internet over DTH.

Posted By: shivkumar
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2007 at 12:33pm
Internet over DTH would be similar to the VSAT technology unveiled in the last decade. Agree with you there would be bandwidth limitations. Wireline tech is more suited to broadband than wireless.

But the situation in India does not really allow anyone other than the state-owned telcos and power utilities to offer broadband.

One advantage of DTH is that it liberates subscribers from the menace of the cable operators. HITS, WWIL, etc will lead the subscriber directly back to the cable operator. Another problem remains wiring up a neighborhood. Only utilities and telcos can do this. But for these companies to replace the cable operators would result in a jihad that matches the retail war.

I will bet on companies like Reliance Energy instead of cable companies like WWIL in Mumbai . They already have one foot inside our house and installing cable/internet/telephone is the next obvious step pending regulatory approvals.

That way, DTH is more of a disruptive technology since one can just stick out a dish out of a window and access cable without depending on third parties like cable operators.



Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2007 at 12:42pm
Reliance Energy offering broadband? It is a distinct possibility - and you don't need http://www.internetworldstats.com/articles/art072.htm - any new wires .
 
When investing in WWIL/DishTV or whatever, one shouldn't give much importance to internet access or broadband business. Because internet access technology keeps changing every few months - who knows we might soon acccess internet http://www.google.com/tisp/ - via our drainage pipes .
 
 

Posted By: johnnybravo
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2007 at 1:00pm
Smartcat - i had read about that commode thing earlier - pata nahi google kahan kahan haat dalega Wink

BTW, you broadband through drainage is also using a optical fibre! So what you just mentioned was 'cable ghar ke aandar kahan se ayega' ... cable remains the same dude...sirf khidki ke jagah aab sandas hai!

Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2007 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by smartcat

I sold BEML and BEL for the K-10 stocks. I made a huge amount of money the portfolio went up 5 times in about one year but finally I lost 90% of the invested capital.
 
During this time, how were non-software type stocks like L&T, RIL, ITC were doing? Was it rangebound, going up steadily or going southwards?
 
Doing nothing. In fact Reliance hit Rs 100 mark in 1999-2000 sometimes. before bonus and we all loved that mark saying "Aisko kaun legab ".
 
I sold off L&T also for the much prized (priced) K-10 stocks. Every argument was based on the reason that tech will grow at 100% CAGR so all PE's are justified.
 
 


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: luke123
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2007 at 1:44pm
Has anyone been convinced on this board on merits of WWIL. There is big buying happening today.


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