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Mutual Fund Returns - Good Bad & the Ugly

Printed From: The Equity Desk
Category: Market Strategies
Forum Name: Fundamental
Forum Discription: Discuss the operations and finances of any of your companies.Make the other participants aware on the investment opportunities available in a stock on PE free cash flow etc
URL: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3579
Printed Date: 19/Apr/2025 at 5:58am


Topic: Mutual Fund Returns - Good Bad & the Ugly
Posted By: HUSSAIN
Subject: Mutual Fund Returns - Good Bad & the Ugly
Date Posted: 15/May/2012 at 8:44am

Dear friends

See the returns of the mutual funds and indices for 3 and 5 years period.
 
5 Years Cat. Avg. Best Fund Worst Fund
Ending 15th May '12 Return Growth of Return Growth of Return Growth of
  (%pa) Rs 100 (%pa) Rs 100 (%pa) Rs 100
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=15 - Equity: FMCG 19.52 243.9 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=630 - 23.2 283.83 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=591 - 16.85 217.84
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=17 - Equity: Pharma 13.5 188.36 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2241 - 21.04 259.8 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=632 - 6.71 138.36
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=12 - Equity: Banking 12.2 177.81 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=1708 - 15.96 209.67 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2255 - 10.27 163.04
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=10 - Equity: Multi Cap 6.09 134.39 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2879 - 12.19 177.73 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=3120 - -4.79 78.24
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=11 - Equity: Mid & Small Cap 5.24 129.09 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2886 - 16.04 210.4 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=215 - -5.02 77.3
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=21 - Equity: International 4.88 126.9 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2117 - 4.63 125.4 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2117 - 4.63 125.4
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=9 - Equity: Large & Mid Cap 4.77 126.24 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2820 - 13.53 188.6 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=3976 - -4.93 77.66
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=18 - Equity: Tax Planning 4.48 124.5 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=59 - 12.18 177.65 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=818 - -5.47 75.48
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=8 - Equity: Large Cap 3.74 120.15 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=1540 - 8.8 152.46 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2615 - -1.8 91.32
S&P CNX Nifty 3.49 118.71 - - - -
Sensex 3.03 116.1 - - - -
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=20 - Equity: Infrastructure 1.76 109.12 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2960 - 6.61 137.72 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2140 - -3.32 84.47
BSE Mid Cap -0.18 99.1 - - - -
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=19 - Equity: Technology -0.39 98.07 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=548 - 2.72 114.36 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=727 - -4.4 79.85
BSE Small Cap -2.26 89.2 - - - -
3 Years Cat. Avg. Best Fund Worst Fund
Ending 15th May '12 Return Growth of Return Growth of Return Growth of
  (%pa) Rs 100 (%pa) Rs 100 (%pa) Rs 100
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=15 - Equity: FMCG 39.82 273.34 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=630 - 41.15 281.22 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=591 - 38.87 267.81
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=17 - Equity: Pharma 33.06 235.58 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2241 - 38.93 268.16 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=654 - 27.57 207.61
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=19 - Equity: Technology 22.71 184.77 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=737 - 32.77 234.05 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=727 - 13.76 147.22
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=28 - Gold: Funds 22.5 183.83 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=4954 - 22.44 183.56 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=4957 - 22.29 182.88
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=11 - Equity: Mid & Small Cap 21.75 180.47 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=5069 - 35.28 247.57 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=3087 - 1.26 103.83
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=12 - Equity: Banking 18.09 164.68 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=1708 - 22.25 182.7 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=6175 - 14.84 151.45
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=10 - Equity: Multi Cap 16.58 158.44 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=2879 - 24.13 191.26 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=8653 - 3.7 111.52
BSE Mid Cap 16.15 156.7 - - - -
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=18 - Equity: Tax Planning 15.03 152.21 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=640 - 22.97 185.95 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=6679 - 4.7 114.77
BSE Small Cap 14.15 148.74 - - - -
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=9 - Equity: Large & Mid Cap 13.64 146.76 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=3181 - 24.41 192.56 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=3158 - 3.5 110.87
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=8 - Equity: Large Cap 11.31 137.91 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=7519 - 20.1 173.23 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=5733 - -2.63 92.32
Sensex 10.94 136.54 - - - -
S&P CNX Nifty 10.94 136.54 - - - -
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=21 - Equity: International 10.5 134.92 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=6275 - 20.68 175.75 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=9314 - 1.81 105.53
http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/h2_typecomp.asp?type=1&objective=20 - Equity: Infrastructure 6.15 119.61 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=6671 - 13.75 147.18 http://valueresearchonline.com/funds/newsnapshot.asp?schemecode=5071 - -0.63 98.12
 
Source:Valueresearchonline.com
 
Some of the best funds returns are mind blowing, even in this so called financial crisis & bear market period. It shows investing is not rocket science, u have to be a bit more discplined.
 
Regards


Replies:
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 15/May/2012 at 9:01am
Problem is how does an invetsor understand which fund will outperform upfront? Five years back Reliance Growth and Vision were the darlings of the industry which than faded away so the leadership changes and we keep thinking of our future on the basis of hindsight information. Personally I feel that Mutual Funds are mostly bull market creatures.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in

Posted By: HUSSAIN
Date Posted: 15/May/2012 at 9:11am
Originally posted by basant

Problem is how does an invetsor understand which fund will outperform upfront? Five years back Reliance Growth and Vision were the darlings of the industry which than faded away so the leadership changes and we keep thinking of our future on the basis of hindsight information. Personally I feel that Mutual Funds are mostly bull market creatures.
 
Agree Basant ji
 
But for a common man, who is educated, he can start through this MF route at the start slowly, develope conviction through SIPs over a period of time and understand markets, gain some knowledge. Then he can decide depending up on this experince/returns, is this his game or not, rather burn fingers directly in stocks (mostly from tips) and never return to markets.
 
 

Posted By: Ravenrage
Date Posted: 15/May/2012 at 10:24am
Originally posted by basant

Problem is how does an invetsor understand which fund will outperform upfront? Five years back Reliance Growth and Vision were the darlings of the industry which than faded away so the leadership changes and we keep thinking of our future on the basis of hindsight information. Personally I feel that Mutual Funds are mostly bull market creatures.


How much importance would you give to the fund manager ?

-------------
Risk does not reside in price changes, but in miscalculations of intrinsic value .

Posted By: manish962
Date Posted: 15/May/2012 at 10:27am
Originally posted by rapidriser

 
To my above post I would like to add that I think Prashant Jain is one of the best MF managers in business and I have a lot of respect for his views, but the stark difference between his fund's performance since inception and last 5 years immediately reminded me of my friend's remarks.
 
 
He is loaded with portfolio of 25,000+ crores. How is he going to outperform with such a huge portfolio? No doube he is one of the best MF manager but ever since the portfolo size zoomed, he is not able to perform.

Posted By: manish962
Date Posted: 15/May/2012 at 11:16am
Originally posted by Ravenrage

Originally posted by basant

Problem is how does an invetsor understand which fund will outperform upfront? Five years back Reliance Growth and Vision were the darlings of the industry which than faded away so the leadership changes and we keep thinking of our future on the basis of hindsight information. Personally I feel that Mutual Funds are mostly bull market creatures.

How much importance would you give to the fund manager ?
 
Equal weightage to the Fund Manager and the Fund house. Also need to consider the AUM of the fund - preferably should be between 1500 to 2500Cr. Higher than that the fund loses its outperformance as seen with HDFC Equity and HDFC Top 200.

Posted By: manish962
Date Posted: 15/May/2012 at 11:18am
Originally posted by basant

Problem is how does an invetsor understand which fund will outperform upfront? Five years back Reliance Growth and Vision were the darlings of the industry which than faded away so the leadership changes and we keep thinking of our future on the basis of hindsight information. Personally I feel that Mutual Funds are mostly bull market creatures.
Yes indeed the MFs mostly ourperform during the bull run. But few good MFs have shown better performance during bear run(but only few).

Posted By: subu76
Date Posted: 16/May/2012 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by HUSSAIN

Source:Valueresearchonline.com

 
Some of the best funds returns are mind blowing, even in this so called financial crisis & bear market period. It shows investing is not rocket science, u have to be a bit more discplined.
 
Regards
 
Hey Hussain, thank you for the insightful post. My post is to make a debating point:
 
To your statement above i'd like to point out that if we saw similar 2007 data we would find only Real estate/infra/commodity stories in the list of winners.
 
3-4 years back India had very limited FMCG focused funds. 

Posted By: tejas.k
Date Posted: 16/May/2012 at 12:55pm
I agree with basantji that  mutual funds are bull market creatures. Most of the  funds don't perform even during bull markets. So the remaining very few became popular.

If you look at the portfolio, you will see the fund houses have different funds in the same category with different names. But the underlying stocks are more or less the same. Take two of the well knows funds. HDFC Equity and HDFC Top 200. One is supposed to be a multi cap and the other one large and mid. But the top holdings are almost the same. even the weightage. Other thing I noticed is that SBI is the top holding in most of the HDFC funds. Equity/top 200/prudence/tax saver etc.  Perhaps thers some sebi guideline that a group company (HDFC Bank) cant be held by the fund house? :-)


Originally posted by manish962

Originally posted by rapidriser

 
To my above post I would like to add that I think Prashant Jain is one of the best MF managers in business and I have a lot of respect for his views, but the stark difference between his fund's performance since inception and last 5 years immediately reminded me of my friend's remarks.
 
 
He is loaded with portfolio of 25,000+ crores. How is he going to outperform with such a huge portfolio? No doube he is one of the best MF manager but ever since the portfolo size zoomed, he is not able to perform.

Posted By: manish962
Date Posted: 16/May/2012 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by tejas.k

If you look at the portfolio, you will see the fund houses have different funds in the same category with different names. But the underlying stocks are more or less the same. Take two of the well knows funds. HDFC Equity and HDFC Top 200. One is supposed to be a multi cap and the other one large and mid. But the top holdings are almost the same. even the weightage. Other thing I noticed is that SBI is the top holding in most of the HDFC funds. Equity/top 200/prudence/tax saver etc.  Perhaps thers some sebi guideline that a group company (HDFC Bank) cant be held by the fund house? :-)
No. MF Fund house can hold the group company stocks. You will find that in ICICI MF having ICICI Bank in the top 10 holdings.
 

Posted By: HUSSAIN
Date Posted: 16/May/2012 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by subu76

Originally posted by HUSSAIN

Source:Valueresearchonline.com

 
Some of the best funds returns are mind blowing, even in this so called financial crisis & bear market period. It shows investing is not rocket science, u have to be a bit more discplined.
 
Regards
 
Hey Hussain, thank you for the insightful post. My post is to make a debating point:
 
To your statement above i'd like to point out that if we saw similar 2007 data we would find only Real estate/infra/commodity stories in the list of winners.
 
3-4 years back India had very limited FMCG focused funds. 
 
Agree Subu
 
Even if u leave the thematic funds (FMCG & BANKs), the equity multicap/Large/midcap/small cap funds given decent average returns around 12 to 16% from the table in 3 to 5 years of so called bear market. i think this is good enough in the long term over a period of 15 years to generate decent returns.
 
The main catch here is through SIP route and small some of money,
no timing of market & its noise, which most people can afford, esp. salaried, unlike for real estate one need decent amount of money to invest.
 
To my knowledge this route is best platform for amateur investor than fixed income route to make money from equity, till he gains knowledge.
 

Posted By: kmukul
Date Posted: 16/May/2012 at 2:07pm
What to buy in every months salary if not for mf? i dont like mf but there are no good diversified holding companies also as an alternative. ETFs are so crappy in india :( just no good option for sips

Posted By: manish962
Date Posted: 16/May/2012 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by kmukul

What to buy in every months salary if not for mf? i dont like mf but there are no good diversified holding companies also as an alternative. ETFs are so crappy in india :( just no good option for sips
You can go for monthly SIP for HDFC Bank & Page Ind 

Posted By: bandlab1
Date Posted: 27/Oct/2012 at 6:20pm

you can beat good MF return by your own SIP of selected equities. this is good for salaried employees

here's a strategy i am thinking on
 
every monday buy hdfc bank
every tuesday buy page ind
every wednesday buy pantaloon
every thursday buy eclerx
every friday buy titan
 
only issue with this approach is brokerage. minimum amount. we should buy enough stocks to cover minimum brokerage. i think 3000 rs per day should be fine. this comes to 60000 per month. if money is constraint do it in alternate weeks or alternate days. idea is systematic investment without emotions
 


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