Print Page | Close Window

Personal care Products

Printed From: The Equity Desk
Category: Investment Ideas - Creating winning portfolios!
Forum Name: Sector talk
Forum Discription: Discussion on sectors with regard to specific matters. We will be discussing the various sectors of the economy and how they would perform. Basically a top down approach.
URL: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2257
Printed Date: 19/Apr/2025 at 10:28pm


Topic: Personal care Products
Posted By: ramani
Subject: Personal care Products
Date Posted: 24/Jul/2009 at 2:07am
Hello,
 
personal care aproducts is a great market and most of the companies are north of 25B$ with very healthy margins - and they tend to be on the top 30 companies in the indexes all over the world.
 
Some top companies in the world especially for your benchmark are Beirsdorf(Germany), fresenius(Germany), henkel(Germany), P&G(US), J&J(US), estee lauder(US), kimberly clark(US), GlaxoSmithkline(UK), Unilever(UK), Svenska Cellulosa (Sweden)

* Idea would be to identify such personal care and beauty products company in India.  if we
indentify the right ones, then we will have truely multibaggers(100 times even - if we  can trust on our conviction after right analysis)
 * in terms of qualifying the opportunity, we should really concentrate on personal health care products companies and may be avoid chemical and pharma companies to narrow down the choice
- an example would be Dabur
*Ofcourse, the key to success is largest Advertisement, technology, R&D spendings as  as we see based on the numbers this companies spend on the above investment items.may be  many of the indian companies dont do yet other than the so called pharma companies.
* Otherside, in india, we have 1000 years of research on all this stuff based on Ayurveda, herbals, yoga etc. so, if we can look for the companies who are really leveraging this 1000 years of investments will be truely successful and will be a delight for people like us who invest early.
 
*i truely believe this will be a great consumer play in india- this is where the market is and this one has a huge market potential
*People in west also especially in Europe are completely nuts for indian concepts of health care, meditation, yoga, indian way of living etc....
 
eagerly looking forward to your thoughts, critics, comments, ideas on some company names, products which could fit this
list.they dont need to be neccessarily big today. let us start digging collaboratively, if the thinking direction is right.
Once we have a list of companies/products, then we can dig deeper into financials to narrow down our choice.
 
 
Please pardone me, if i posted it in the wrong place, since i am still trying to figure out the structure of the forum. if wrong, please help me in moving it to right spots.
 
thanks and warm regards
Ramani



Replies:
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 24/Jul/2009 at 10:27am
I think this is a good place to be in. However the better potential names in this sector are Marico (Kaya though % of revenues is small), Dabur. I am not sure if there are any otrher pure listed players around.
 
I think both these companies grow at 18%-20% CAGR.


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: RahulB
Date Posted: 24/Jul/2009 at 11:14am
In personal healthcare space you can look at Zydus Cadila and Zydus Wellness – they cover both Pharma as well as Personal Health Care space. Some of their well known products include:

 

-         Sugar Free – sugar substitute

-         Nutralite- cholesterol-free butter

-         Everyuth – face wash, scrub etc.

 

It is worth studying them in detail…

I like their approach of setting clear measurable goals for themselves

A vision that unleashes value
To be a leading global healthcare provider with a robust product pipeline and sales of over $1 bn by 2010; we shall achieve sales of over $3 bn by 2015 and be a research-based pharmaceutical company by 2020.



Posted By: ramani
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2009 at 3:35pm
Thanks Basant and Rahul, marico and Zydus both are on spot.
 
first screening
Marico - some wellknown brands including parachute oil. i could very well associate with many brands. i like their approach. financially ROE is great. PE ratio is double of earnings growth - too much expectation from too may for wrong or good reasons. outlook this quarter is southbound. will put in watchlist for timebeing.
 
Zydus wellness- i like their customisation abilities for markets which is very key but otherside but i have two main concerns even before getting down to financials
1. there is lot of issue regarding management - too many negative posts in net on that - this makes me scary.
2. secondly, their wellness angle starts from milk products. intuitively, this is pretty small area and otherside the fat content in indian houshold perception is still quite low in many households so people may forego the benefits of such milkbased wellness support of ZW - this is just my intuitive feeling, i could be completely wrong.. ...


Posted By: ramani
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2009 at 3:55pm
Rahul,
 
Just on the Zydus Cadilla this time (see Zydus wellness quick screening below in the thread) - i do like their  products geared towards women health and also customisation abilities to the market needs. otherside to me their growth strategy seems to be in contracting and expansion in other countries and generica- looks to me more outbound rather than work on inbound for tapping indian market which is huge - so fit the bill of most indian pharma companies.  they also do not leverage the indian advantages of ayurvedic research and it is more about indian cost advantage.... moreover, people are complaining about management. going to skip this but would be happy to receive other opinions....
 
 
still looking forward to some companies in personal care products (Marico
fits the bill but too much valued ----but there should be some more companies i suppose... ........)
 


Posted By: vishu013
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2009 at 5:09pm
How about these:
1. Dabur
2. GSK consumer healthcare
3. P&G Hygiene and healthcare


Posted By: Circuit
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2009 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by vishu013

How about these:
1. Dabur
2. GSK consumer healthcare
3. P&G Hygiene and healthcare


I like P&G Hygiene and healthcare - focused player with only two brands - Vicks and Whisper.


Posted By: ramani
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2009 at 6:27pm

Thanks Vishu and Circuit,

I am sure all these companies will bring good returns but all of them are expensive ( just to be sure, i dont call Educomp expensive inspite of high PEs).

In my opinion, Marico and Dabur are doing the right steps and they have a big market to capture.  the brands they have created already has a substatial value on which they can leverage including chyawanprash, parachute etc. femcare acqusition and Kaya are definitely the right directions they are taking.....

but the story is that all these are quite expensive stocks, and are really not moving big to capture and leverage the potential in this space to give a sense of acceleration. therefore, it will be great to collaboratively find the next ones and in the budding stage...

Let me give an example, have you heard of amway - they have really spread throughout india virulantly. i see many of my cousins,  friends in india use their products extensively. it was funny to hear that "hamam to tamam ho gaya ab sirf Amway use karenge"... quite a lot of interests in nutrilite as well - since you know many of the indians are vegetarian and so need nutrient substitutes.. this is the kind of grassroot info that will help us to identify the next multi-multibagger in this space, unfortunately Amway is not yet listed....

warm regards

Ramani



Posted By: atulbull
Date Posted: 25/Jul/2009 at 8:00pm
Another strong contender in the personal care segment is Godrej Consumer Products.

Godrej Consumer Q1 net up 78% at Rs 69 cr
Press Trust of India / Mumbai July 25, 2009, 12:49 IST
FMCG major Godrej Consumer Products today said its net profit rose by 78.20 per cent at Rs 69.68 crore for the first quarter ended June 30, 2009 over the same period last year.

The company had a net profit of Rs 39.1 crore in the same period last year, Godrej Consumer Products said in a filing to the Bombay Stock Exchange.

Total income rose to Rs 448.99 crore in the latest quarter, against Rs 370.89 crore in the same period previous fiscal.

On standalone basis, the company posted a net profit of Rs 60.29 crore during the June quarter ended, up 75 per cent from Rs 34.28 crore in the same quarter ended June 2008.

Total income rose to Rs 350.33 crore in the quarter under review, against Rs 287.14 crore in the same quarter last year.




-------------
Price is what you pay.Value is what you get.


Posted By: ramani
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2009 at 3:04pm
godrej consumer numbers are quite S*xy. I hope they can keep this.
 
any thoughts about Kerala Ayurveda and Amar Remedies.?


Posted By: Ashutosh
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2009 at 6:37pm
Thanks ramani for starting this thread and giving us opportunity to think in this area.

I would like to add this one
1. Zandu pharmaceuticals

I have personally used there chawanparash and they are really effective...but don't know why don't the advertise unlike Dabur or what are there expansion plans

They have also gone into ayurvedic cosmetics which will be definitely good and as what you said about 1000 years of knowledge and experience...i think it fits in there..

I am not trying the discussion to bring into there financials but ...i just saw today by curiosity on this stock and found some different numbers...( new to investing so i may be feeling weird)

1. Face value =100..so far just saw stocks of FV =10 and less
2. 52 Week H/L : 4000/24000....currently 7000..

****** just some advise incase somebody suffering from alleriges which is quite common these days*************

as when somebody is suffering from sinusities....allergic to dust......and headache...because of cough filling in ...all then ...
zandu ka keesri jeevan ..chawanparash ..with milk does a great work....make yourself less affected
there is no cure for it....so one of my family member is relying...on this for the last 10 years...


-------------
My tastes are simple: I am easily satisfied with the best


Posted By: Ashutosh
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2009 at 6:48pm
Also ...when you talked about Estee lauder,etc..there products are quite expensive...people in developed world have buying power....they don't believe in saving while in India/China...people do a lot of savings...

India in coming 15 years will only be termed as or become middle income group country.....So definitely...the demand will grow for these products...but...relatively...it will not be as that in developed countries ...In that scenario how much margin will be there for the personal care products companies ...if you are saying that we should concentrate on domestic player/domestic demand...

-------------
My tastes are simple: I am easily satisfied with the best


Posted By: ramani
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2009 at 10:06pm
good pick Ashutosh,
 
Zandu is Funtastic. i get always a pack of Zandu as well in my travel bag. all my friends love it - as if they have never seen something like that.
 
it does also very well fit into the ayurvedic thesis.
 
i looked at the numbers - they have posted fantastic numbers for year ending 2009. PE 20, ROE 20 something.
 
any thoughts about their expansion plans?
any thoughts about the mgmt?
 
is anybody covering this stock among TEDs?
 
 


Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2009 at 11:28pm
Have a look at Emami. They have taken a stake in Zandu in 2008.



-------------
Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.


Posted By: ramani
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2009 at 4:08am

Mohan,

I had a look at Emami, interesting they are paying less than today's stock market value for Zandu shareholders - very strange. they paid almost double to takeover compared to today's price for Zandu ( market correction last year)

I think, we need to look at Emami further...
 


-------------
It's not important whether you are right or wrong, it more important how much you lose when you are wrong and how much money you make when you are right" - Soros. keep profit makers, sell loss-makers


Posted By: Ashutosh
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2009 at 4:44am
yeah, saw that now Emami has 72% stake in Zandu and they have seized management control but Emami PE is 35 and looks like Emami is bringing changes and it is aggressive

%20http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Interviews/We-may-buy-companies-overseas-/articleshow/4557842.cms - ET talks with Emami Chairman

So, in the present scenario which is good for investor to get into Zandu or Emami as there are differences in PE?

Was seeing the price trend of Zandu and in 2 months which started from june 2008 it went up from 6 K to 24 K and again came down.

Some more info on Emami's plans for Zandu:

http://www.livemint.com/2009/07/05223247/Emami-plans-to-make-50-Ayurved.html?h=B%20 - Emami plans to make 50 Ayurvedic drugs from Zandu stable

-------------
My tastes are simple: I am easily satisfied with the best


Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 27/Jul/2009 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by ramani

Mohan,

I had a look at Emami, interesting they are paying less than today's stock market value for Zandu shareholders - very strange. they paid almost double to takeover compared to today's price for Zandu ( market correction last year)

I think, we need to look at Emami further...
 



Yes,
It seems like Emami management has aggressive plans for the Zandu brand.
they have definitely paid a handsome premium for the share.



-------------
Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.


Posted By: atulbull
Date Posted: 02/Aug/2009 at 6:29pm
Scrip Code:532660   Company: http://www.bseindia.com/stockreach/stockreach.htm?scripcd=532660 - Vivimed Labs Ltd   



                   01 August 2009
Subject:Vivimed Labs - Financial Results for Jun 30, 2009
Announcement:Vivimed Labs Ltd has informed BSE about the Financial Results for the Quarter ended June 30, 2009.
Attachment http://www.bseindia.com/xml-data/corpfiling/announcement/Vivimed_Labs_Ltd_010809_Rst.pdf - Click here for more details


-------------
Price is what you pay.Value is what you get.


Posted By: atulbull
Date Posted: 02/Aug/2009 at 6:46pm
Dabur forays into premium skincare mkt
Press Trust Of India / Mumbai August 02, 2009, 0:36 IST

Leading Ayurvedic and natural health care firm, Dabur India, has forayed into the premium skincare market by launching a new product range and has targeted 8 per cent market share in the next eight months.

The product range — Dabur Uveda skincare expert from Ayurveda, has critical herbal extracts derived from a blend of authentic ayurvedic ingredients, Dabur India’s Vice President, Personal care,Vikas Mittal said. Dabur expects to generate 8 per cent market share in the next six to eight months, Mittal said.

“We are expecting a good revenue from these products in the next fiscal as well. We have plans to introduce some new products for both men and women in the near future,” he said. The range consist of complete fairness cream, 2 in 1 moisturiser, moisturising face wash and clarifying face wash.

Source:BS



-------------
Price is what you pay.Value is what you get.


Posted By: atulbull
Date Posted: 02/Aug/2009 at 6:48pm
Dabur finds its missing link
Bhupesh Bhandari / New Delhi July 28, 2009, 0:27 IST

Dabur's acquisition of Fem gives it a foothold in the crowded skin care market. But can it deliver the goods?

It was evening and Dabur India CEO Sunil Duggal was in the mood to celebrate. After some tough negotiations, he had closed the acquisition of Fem Care Pharma, the Mumbai-based maker of skin care products and owner of the Fem brand. He was booked at the Taj and his key team members were at the Trident. It was the company’s second acquisition after Balsara and he decided to take everybody out for dinner. The Dabur men went to a Managlorean restaurant not far from the two hotels.

The date was November 26, 2008. By the time Duggal got back, the Taj as well as the Trident was swarming with policemen. Terrorists, who came from the sea, had taken over the two hotels. Bullets were flying everywhere. And no, they were told, they will not be allowed in to get their baggage. All of them bundled into a car and drove to the office of Balsara nearby. That is where they spent the night. Next day they were back in Delhi.

Fem saved the Dabur A team that fateful night. But can it deliver the goods for the fast-moving consumer goods company in the long run? All told, Dabur has paid Rs 257 crore to acquire Fem from Sunil Pophle, his sister Sunita Ramnathkar and small shareholders. The price, analysts have said, was high, possibly because there were others also in the fray. (The names that did the rounds at that time were Godrej and Marico.) But Duggal says the payment is just two-and-a-half times the annual revenue of Fem (Rs 110 crore in 2008-09). More important, it pitchforks Dabur into reckoning in the skin care market. Duggal says Dabur is now the third-largest player after Hindustan Unilever and Emami.

Long ambitions
This is a market Dabur has eyed for a while. It was the missing link in its personal care portfolio which had hair and oral care products. The skin care market is pegged at around Rs 2,000 crore and is growing at 20 per cent annually. Women have become more skin conscious in the country. The sun in India is very strong and clothes, especially in the age bracket of 18 to 30 years, expose more skin now than before. Hence, there is a tremendous possibility for growth.

The market is crowded. There are multinational corporations like Hindustan Unilever, L’Oreal, Nivea, Reckitt Benckiser and Procter & Gamble and homespun street fighters like Cavin Kare, Emami and Cadila vying for a piece of the pie. The average ad spend in the skin care category is 20 per cent of sales, as against 12 or 13 per cent in other FMCG categories, perhaps because consumers are extremely brand conscious. Still, the gross margins are at least 50 per cent higher than the FMCG average. Dabur, in fact, has made Fem its fifth power brand after Dabur, Vatika, Real and Hajmola in terms of revenue, profitability, extension opportunities and strategic fit. Clearly, the stakes are high.

Dabur first tested the waters some years ago when it launched a soap and face pack under the Vatika brand. But it did not make much headway. Consumers identified the brand with hair care. As a result, the soap was discontinued last year and the face pack registers negligible sales.

Then, about a year ago, Dabur came out with skin care products under the Gulabarai range: Moisturising lotion and cream plus a spray to freshen the face. The company had launched Gulabari rose water for use in food and medicinal purposes many years ago. But it found that women used it for skin care. Hence, the new range. More products under the brand could follow. To serve the food market, it has launched Gulabari Zaika.

Gulabari sales are around Rs 50 crore. But it is hardly a killer brand. This is where Fem fits in. Its product portfolio has a bleach lotion and hair remover. For men, Fem has a bleach lotion called Saka. Rivals point out that Fem doesn’t have a natural fit with Dabur: While the Fem range is totally cosmetic, Dabur’s core equity is herbal and natural. Duggal is not too bothered. He says Dabur has already made progress in the non-herbal world with its toothpastes. And almost 15 per cent of its sales are non-herbal.

All told, there will be three pillars in Dabur’s skin care strategy: Gulabari, Fem and a third Ayurveda range under a new brand for the top end of the mass market which will be launched by September. But the warhorse will be Fem. As the brand was under-advertised, a brand new commercial with Bollywood actor Preity Zinta has been rolled out. Though it has other celebrities on its rolls (Rani Mukherjee, Genelia D’Souza and others), it has chosen Zinta because “she is assertive and spontaneous and appeals to all age groups across the country,” according to Dabur Chief Operating Officer (consumer business) VS Sitaram. “When we want people to revaluate what they are doing, we look at Zinta.”

Bleach appeal
Women in the Indian subcontinent face a peculiar problem: Facial hair. One way to hide it is to use a bleach lotion. And the only company which makes it is Fem, though there are a handful of regional players. Since it is not a worldwide problem, multinationals corporations have stayed away from it. At the same time, penetration is low. Sitaram reckons not more than two or three per cent of the women who have facial hair use a bleach lotion. This gives Fem a clear run in the market. Duggal says Fem’s bleach lotion business could shoot up from Rs 130 crore now to over Rs 500 crore in the next four or five years.

It’s not all that easy, though. Almost half of the FMCG market, sector analysts point out, is with a single brand, Hindustan Unilever’s fairness cream Fair & Lovely. Since Fem addresses the same market, the challenge is enormous. Duggal says there is a difference: While Fair & Lovely promises fairness after weeks of usage, Fem is about instant transformation. In other words, Fem does not compete head-on with Fair & Lovely. “We will go to the fairness cream market only if there is a compelling reason and clear product differentiation,” says Duggal.

Women often complain that use of a bleach lotion can be harmful to the skin. Fem had in the past carried out studies which showed that it causes no harm so long as it is used according to the instructions. Still, the perception has not gone away. To counter the perception, the company has prepared an additive with 16 herbs. Buyers now have the herbal option with a pre- and post-bleach lotion. A television commercial with Zinta has been shot and will soon be on air.

Hair remover
Hair removers worth Rs 200 crore are sold in the country every year and Fem has a ten per cent share of this market. Rivals are Anne French from Wyeth Labs and Veet from Reckitt Benckiser — strong brands that are supported by huge ad budgets. Dabur knew it right from the beginning that it would have to create a unique sale proposition for its hair remover.

Consumer research showed that hair removers tend to make the skin rough. “The cream turns the skin alkaline. So we came out with a nourishing lotion that restores the skin to its mildly acidic character,” says Sitaram. The product category calls for sensible advertising — hair removal is an intimate topic in most Indian households. “But we need to talk to these young women who have come to the market. We will go very aggressively to beauty parlours and colleges,” Sitaram adds.

The masculine option
There is enough evidence to suggest that men regularly dip in to the dressing table of their wives or sisters for toiletries: Shampoo, hair oil, perfume, hair colour and fairness cream. Thus, large skin care companies have launched fairness creams for men. There is in the market place Hindustan Unilever’s Fair & Lovely Men’s Active, Emami’s Fair & Handsome and now L’Oreal’s Garnier. All told, these creams sell about Rs 100 crore in a year.

Fem too had launched last year a bleach lotion for men under the brand Saka. (Fem is essentially a feminine brand so a new brand had to be created for this category.) Again, while other creams promise fairness after at least four weeks of usage, Saka talks of instant fairness. Saka closed last year with sales of Rs 3 to 4 crore. Sitaram thinks the brand proposition is very strong. In fact, it has been decided to continue with the old advertisement of Saka!

Bleach lotion and hair removal cream are not the entire Fem story. There is also a Fem in the liquid soap market (annual size: Rs 80-90 crore). The strongest brands are Reckitt Benckiser’s Dettol and Hindustan Unilever’s Lifebuoy. Both have strong anti-bacterial properties. Fem, on the other hand, is a soft soap that is gentle on the hands. But the proposition isn’t good enough. “The market has gone anti-bacterial,” accepts Sitaram.

At the moment, Dabur has kept all its options open: Should Fem continue with the current positioning, should it join the anti-bacterial bandwagon or should it create a new space for itself? “We are not 100 per cent sure how to take it forward,” says Sitaram.

At the moment, Duggal has decided to keep the sale and stockist networks of Dabur and Fem separate. “The Fem sales team may get lost in Dabur. Also, the Dabur team may not have the expertise to sell Fem products,” says he. As a result, any integration of the two sales forces is not on the cards for the current financial year. At the apex level, the marketing teams of course have become one. The back-end, purchase and media-buying functions have also been merged.

But, sooner than later, Duggal will have to see how the Dabur network can be leveraged to grow Fem. Fem has a decent network till towns which have a population of 500,000. Beyond that, its presence is patchy. That is where Dabur can take over. It reaches 2.8 million outlets in the country, as compared to Fem’s 500,000. Though all Dabur outlets cannot stock Fem too, there could be synergies that can be exploited.


SOURCE:BS






-------------
Price is what you pay.Value is what you get.


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 25/Aug/2009 at 3:23pm
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/soap-opera/367947/ - Story of the number 1 soap!

-------------



Print Page | Close Window