Paper Industry
Printed From: The Equity Desk
Category: Investment Ideas - Creating winning portfolios!
Forum Name: Sector talk
Forum Discription: Discussion on sectors with regard to specific matters. We will be discussing the various sectors of the economy and how they would perform. Basically a top down approach.
URL: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2074
Printed Date: 26/Jun/2024 at 9:58pm
Topic: Paper Industry
Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Subject: Paper Industry
Date Posted: 24/Feb/2009 at 9:18pm
| Nice starting point by http://hdfcsec.com/Research/Story.aspx?Heading=IndustryReports&ArticleID=c108dcf7-22c1-4691-9e80-80834d8cd1c2 - HDFC Securities . |
Replies:
Posted By: kutchi1966
Date Posted: 27/Feb/2009 at 1:19pm
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how about J K Paper @ sub 15 level. Good dividend yield. Though it will not qualify buy if ROE/ROCE, growth angle is sceutinised. But at BV of Rs.50 and EPS of Rs.4 - 5, I hope it will can give a return of 36% if one consider dps also. Can any one give their view with the investment time horizon of one year?Mukesh. ------------- M.JAIN |
Posted By: 9StockPortfolio
Date Posted: 27/Feb/2009 at 4:39pm
also debt is too high ------------- Pursuit of Value |
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 27/Feb/2009 at 9:07am
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Most of the paper companies are family held affairs where the Board and the management do what theowners want them to do. BILT is an exception but apart from that many paper companies have promoters taking ana ctive and keen interest in the affairs to squeeze the minority shareholders.
------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in |
Posted By: Vivek Sukhani
Date Posted: 28/Feb/2009 at 4:50pm
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JK Paper is almost available at its 1 year cash flows. Problem is, I dont understand what are these promoters doing. Harsh Pati Singhania is more busy with his industry body meetings than with JK Paper.....thats the tragedy.
Among paper stocks, BILT does qualify as a good stock, and so does a TNLP. ------------- Jai Guru!!! |
Posted By: kutchi1966
Date Posted: 01/Mar/2009 at 11:44am
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Even considering all negatives as said here about J K Paper, What matters to an investor is the returns, which I thinks from here any one can earn not less than 30% P.A in Jk paper. My view in this scrip for less than 12 months. This is not long term investment grade share. Hope here more in this forum. Thanks ------------- M.JAIN |
Posted By: kannanravi1
Date Posted: 07/Mar/2009 at 2:22am
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Hi Vivek,
If I recall you were interested in playing in the paper sector. Which is your favorite pick in that space? BILT my any chance? Also whats your take on Macmillan. Macmillan appears to attractive from a valuation standpoint. I have never looked into it closely though. Any clue? ------------- kannan |
Posted By: Vivek Sukhani
Date Posted: 08/Mar/2009 at 11:08am
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Macmillan, if I remember correctly, is showing consistent decline in profitability.
Among paper, I would still go with West Coast Paper, BILT, TNPL and JK paper..... ------------- Jai Guru!!! |
Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 08/Mar/2009 at 11:16am
Also some corporate action happened. Don't know details but Ramesh Damani used to be active in this. ------------- |
Posted By: Vivek Sukhani
Date Posted: 08/Mar/2009 at 11:19am
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Publishing as a space is okay, but profitability is a concern. What do you say for Navneet? ------------- Jai Guru!!! |
Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 08/Mar/2009 at 11:20am
I was tempted but finally didn't get into it. ------------- |
Posted By: Vivek Sukhani
Date Posted: 08/Mar/2009 at 11:27am
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Good..... ------------- Jai Guru!!! |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 17/Jul/2009 at 4:06pm
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I bought a small quantity of West Coast Paper instead of BILT. Reasons -
- It has got a really cool name.
- No raw material volatility issues because they have license to cut down trees in Karnataka, and they have a factory right next to a river (so no water problems).
- Steady increase in sales & profits in the recent past - no hiccups in the middle. Closed FY09 with net sales of Rs. 620 crores and a net profit of Rs. 90 crores.
- Marketcap of Rs. 300 crores, P/E of 3.5, P/BV of 0.6 and dividend yield of 6%.
- Owns a part of Rama Newsprint (current mcap Rs. 90 cr)
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Posted By: 9StockPortfolio
Date Posted: 17/Jul/2009 at 4:29pm
Except Debt, everything else looks good for West Coast Paper Mills. Still, I want to hear from Vivek why he gives preference to BILT than Deccan or WCPM. ------------- Pursuit of Value |
Posted By: Vivek Sukhani
Date Posted: 19/Jul/2009 at 8:21pm
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I already have West Coast. BILT I had exited during the buyback and the run-up prior to the buyback. Now, I am gradually trying to get back what I had sold out.
BILT, in its current form, now more of a consumer company rather than paper manufacturing company. West Coast is a very static kind of a company. Better than west Coast, I would rather bet with a Seshasayee or a JK paper.
------------- Jai Guru!!! |
Posted By: nitin_jagtap
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 12:32pm
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We might eventually see BILT being an end to end upstream and downstream player in the paper business...lot has to do with the branding that gautam thapar has planned for bilt ..right from planning to open exlcusive bilt stores upto sponsoring some major golfing events in India. Valuing the brand IMO will be tricky unlike the other players like WCPM or star or sheshasayee ------------- Warm REgards Nitin Jagtap |
Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 12:45pm
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A little about BILT, a little about Crompton, is http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1906&PID=111044#111044 - here
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Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 12:46pm
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How important is a "brand" when it comes to selling paper? According to me, branding for paper is as "less important" as branding for something like steel. |
Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 12:59pm
What a relief you didn't take this topic down another road  !------------- |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 1:12pm
| It is always MY WAY or the HIGHWAY. |
Posted By: nitin_jagtap
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 1:22pm
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Its not just branding the plain paper ...its branding the dairies, books,calendar and all paper related stationery...something like what ITC does which i just using their name and capitalizing on the distribution. ------------- Warm REgards Nitin Jagtap |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 1:39pm
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You need to check what percentage of sales for BILT comes from such stationery items. I don't like BILT because of this - their past sales & profit performance
http://www.moneycontrol.com/financials/ballarpurindustries/results/yearly/BI12 - http://www.moneycontrol.com/financials/ballarpurindustries/results/yearly/BI12
Why have they messed up so badly in the past?
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Posted By: 9StockPortfolio
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 2:09pm
Thanks Hitesh for sharing this information. ------------- Pursuit of Value |
Posted By: Vivek Sukhani
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 2:10pm
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The company has reorganied its business. It has demerged its business and the company in its current form is more a concumer company rather than a commodity company.
Comparing the financials of the new avtaar with the old avtaar is therefore, not a right way of looking at BILT. ------------- Jai Guru!!! |
Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 2:43pm
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Now BILT is now looking a lot better than before. But why do they keep http://www.google.co.in/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0h&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enIN260IN260&q=bilt+restructuring - restructuring their business every few years? 1998, 1999, 2000, 2007, 2008... Instead of trying to become big, it looks like they are trying to become small.
But I guess a consumer company will have a 2 - 3 times higher P/E than a commodity company.
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Posted By: nitin_jagtap
Date Posted: 20/Jul/2009 at 5:59pm
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The intangible aspects of a direct consumer business like brand, distribution capability, retail real estate value would help to command a higher valuation IMO ------------- Warm REgards Nitin Jagtap |
Posted By: huai0592
Date Posted: 20/May/2011 at 9:55am
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I am a newer here. Glad to meet u. ------------- |