Is the US economy heading for a collapse?
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Printed Date: 19/Apr/2025 at 3:27am
Topic: Is the US economy heading for a collapse?
Posted By: valueman
Subject: Is the US economy heading for a collapse?
Date Posted: 20/Mar/2008 at 6:47pm
Is the US economy heading for a collapse? M R Venkatesh
http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/mar/20mrv.htm
March 20, 2008 An open letter to Mr Ben Bernanke, chairman, US Federal Reserve:
Sir,
Decades back, one of your predecessors splendidly captured the post-gold standard and the consequent free float of the US dollar scenario rather succinctly when he termed the US dollar as 'our currency, others' responsibility.'
It is this responsibility cast on outsiders like me that compels me to write this open letter to you.
As I write this, I am fully conscious of the fact that we are living in exceptionally troubled times. I am equally conscious of the fact that being the chairman of the US Federal Reserve, you are in effect the central banker to the entire world. Surely, it is an unenviable position.
Your actions, sir, not only impact the United States economy, it does have the potency to impact the global economy. That explains, partly, if not wholly, the 'why' to this letter.
Yes, I am indeed aware of the sub-prime crisis that has engulfed the entire global financial sector. I am sure you are fully aware as to how your predecessor, Mr Alan Greenspan -- one of the most influential economists of our times -- described the sub-prime crisis in his book -- The Age of Turbulence. According to him the American economy was 'facing not a bubble but a froth -- lots of small, local bubbles that never grew to a scale that could threaten the health of the overall economy.'
Yet, as events turns out, I suspect, Alan Greenspan is wrong. But the point is not merely the judgemental capacity of Alan Greenspan. Rather, it reflects poorly on the American regulatory mechanism.
After all, wasn't he the product of a system that was repeatedly touted as fail-proof; at least in surveillance, supervision and regulation? And my worry is that you too are a product of the very same system that has compelled him to be wrong.
Saving US economy from the US Fed!
In fact, the starting point of the present conundrum was the American assumption about globalisation. In hindsight, your assumption that the world was 'flat' seems to be incorrect. In fact, it was skewed, tilted, slanted -- anything but flat.
Based on such simplistic assumptions that you can prepare a global order for the world, you unleashed a war between interest rates and the index, between spenders and savers, between exporters and importers, and between producers and consumers. In this war, your countrymen -- or institutions that were controlled by Americans -- mostly wrote the rules.
More importantly, the US Fed sided with the index, consumers, spenders and importers -- all in the name of free market, capitalism and, of course, globalisation.
And you thought the world had no other options but to follow your model. It is in this connection I am reminded of the title of the famous book, Saving Capitalism from Capitalists by Raghuram Rajan, the noted economist.
I only hope and pray that your actions do not lead to a situation where we need to save the American economy, the US dollar and, by extension, the entire global financial system from complete collapse from your actions or inactions. Save the US economy from the US Fed!
Systemic failure?
Your actions over the past few months wherein you have reduced the benchmark interest rates from 5.25 per cent to 2.25 per cent now is akin to a village hakim (doctor) in India, prescribing his only concoction as medicine to patients suffering from sterility to those in advanced stages of pregnancy.
By merely prescribing rate cuts repeatedly since September 2007, to an outsider it would seem that the US Fed is keen to attack the symptoms rather than to address the systemic malaise.
In a scenario where the wave of bad news keeps coming regularly, with rumours of financial institutions going belly-up hitting markets continuously, and with markets alternating between crisis and calamity, one is not sure about the efficacy of the interest rate cuts effectuated by you. More importantly markets are not responding to your line of treatment.
Or is the diagnosis of the entire problem wrong?
All of us want to know -- in case the problems persist -- whether you will cut the benchmark interest rates to zero? Assuming that the pains in the markets are not mitigated even then, what is the monetary, or for that matter, policy instrument available to deal in such a scenario?
Crucially, even six-months after we first heard about this crisis, despite all the surveillance, systems and procedures, we are yet to figure out the aggregate value of the sub-prime losses. Despite all the tall claims about the efficacy of your regulators, why is that we are still kept in the dark? Is it that they are unable to fathom the problem?
Or is it a comprehensive failure of the entire system? I am scared as experiences from 9/11 demonstrate that American surveillance systems are indeed suspect -- both on fiscal and physical matters.
Is it a mere $100-200 billion, as it was reported originally and thereupon dismissed as inconsequential by some? Or is it $400-600 billion as reported by UBS or Goldman Sachs subsequently? Or is it $1 trillion as reported by economists like Roubini and others? Or is it something more that compels you to be silent?
Lack of trust compounded by silence
Whatever it be, an official statement from you clearly defining the extent of the problem, would be in order. At least that in my opinion, sir, would put an end to the uncertainty that is plaguing the financial markets all across the globe. And, sir, as you know, markets abhor uncertainty, for lack of trust is highly corrosive.
Nouriel Roubini captures this paradigm brilliantly when he states: 'The lack of trust in counterparties -- driven by the opacity and lack of transparency in financial markets, and uncertainty about the size of the losses and who is holding the toxic waste securities -- will add to the impotence of monetary policy and lead to massive hoarding of liquidity that will exacerbate the liquidity and credit crunch.'
Sir, the problem that is confronting the US economy does not only concern liquidity, profitability, capital adequacy or solvency. It concerns credibility of the system leading to lack of trust. And your studied silence is compounding the issue.
When rouges go berserk
But this is not a mere issue of even a trillion dollars as others opine. As the Fed chairman, I am sure you are aware of the magnitude of the problem. Let me elaborate.
Sir, you may recall that it often said that when normal men go berserk they are called rouges. When rouges go berserk, it is called the global financial system -- a system that is defined, dominated and denominated by the world of derivatives.
Sir, as you may be aware that derivatives are creatures of the world of 'virtual finance' that dominates the world of 'actual finance,' several times over.
With the best of financial minds engaged in devising complex and exotic derivative instruments, regulators across continents are oblivious to the net impact of these instruments (aggregate value estimated to be in excess of $500 trillion in 2007 when the world GDP is approximately $40 trillion only) on global economy.
In this world of virtual finance, currency, commodity, and stocks have been uniformly converted into financial assets. And as every market gyrate violently, risks would materialise, then crystallise and get actualised, the cascading effect of this highly leveraged game in the world of 'virtual finance' on the relatively tiny world of 'actual finance' is indeed mind-boggling.
Sir, no wonder you are silent on the extent of the potential damage -- both on actual and virtual finance. And this is eloquent testimony to the fact that the markets are beyond your control, your surveillance and your regulations.
Sir, I am sure you would know that even on the morning of November 9, 1989 (A different 9/11) one could never have predicted the fall of the Berlin wall that evening. That in turn signified the fall of Communism. Though analysts had predicted its fall for over two decades, the abruptness did catch everyone by surprise.
Sir, the world does not want to be caught once again by such nasty surprise. Already economists like Martin Wolff (in the US) and Gurumurthy (in India) have predicted large-scale intervention by the 'US public sector' to bail out private finance firms from collapse. The recent bail out of Bear Stearns was an indicator of what lay ahead.
But this solution seems to suggest the conversion of the US into a perfect socialist state -- socialism for the rich, mighty, privileged and those who were reckless with others' finances.
In the alternative, the US runs the risk of going the erstwhile USSR way with the only variation that abrupt collapse of the US, unlike USSR, could have profound impact on global economy.
Either way it would seem that you are following the Russian model. What a fall for a country that was held to be a model for free markets and capitalism! Surely Karl Marx would be chuckling at your predicament.
Sir, your silence on all these matters is funereal. And the list of those who doubt the very viability of the US economy is growing by the minute. Let me confess with a heavy heart, sir, today, I have joined that bandwagon.
With best regards,
M R Venkatesh
The author is a Chennai-based chartered accountant. He can be contacted at [email protected]
-------------
To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize ; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks .
Benjamin Graham.
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Replies:
Posted By: atulbull
Date Posted: 24/Mar/2008 at 6:28pm
The most dangerous words on Wall Street
Wilbur Ross
Chairman and CEO, WL Ross & Co
I recently overheard two men arguing about who was better off. One boasted
about his new car, the other about a plasma TV and so on, until one proclaimed,
"I am better off because I owe more than you are worth." The second
man conceded defeat. This anecdote summarizes the mortgage bubble. Americans
spent more than they earned in 2005 and 2006 and borrowed the difference. The
federal government did the same. Everyone secretly feared this was unsound but
wanted immediate gratification, so there was applause for talking heads who
said global liquidity would make these borrowings safe. Alan Greenspan went so
far as to suggest that people take out adjustable-rate mortgages.
Liquidity, however, is not about physical cash; it is mainly a psychological
state. Subprime problems have consumed only trivial amounts of global cash but
already have burst bubbles by shocking lenders. Clever financial engineering
effectively had convinced lenders to ignore risk, and not just in subprime. A
major hedge fund participated in a loan to one of our companies, but sent no
one to a due diligence meeting. So I called the senior partner to thank him and
tell him about the non-attendance. He responded, "I know. For a $10
million commitment, it wasn't worth going to a meeting."
When subprime issues first surfaced this spring, many major institutions said
they had none, but recent quarterly write-offs show they did. They weren't
lying; they just didn't know what they had. Their embarrassment has brought
risk control back into vogue. It was always silly to lend to weak credits at
discounted interest rates, and without documenting income and balance sheets
and without appraisals. No amount of model building should have enabled Wall
Street to take $100 of such paper and alchemize it into securities sold for
$103. Models inherently assume a future similar to the past and therefore they
fail when multiple standard deviations occur. Subprime models also did not capture
ever more lax credit standards nor that real estate might suffer severe and
protracted price declines, again proving that the two most dangerous words in
Wall Street vocabulary are "financial engineering."
Now that we have identified the cause of the disease, how severe and how
contagious is it? The present $200 billion of delinquencies will grow to $400
billion or $500 billion next year because $570 billion more low, teaser-rate
mortgages will reset to market and consume more than 50% of the borrowers'
income. Therefore most of the loans will be foreclosed or restructured.
Probably 1.5 million to two million families will lose their homes. Meanwhile,
few lenders will put mortgages on the foreclosed houses, so the prices will
plummet. Despite these tragedies, total losses will probably be less than 1% of
household wealth and only 2% to 3% of one year's GDP, so this is not
Armageddon. However, even prime jumbo mortgages will be more expensive and more
difficult to obtain.
Similar excesses occurred in corporate debt markets. Leveraged buyouts were
financed with few or no restrictive covenants and with some borrowers able to
"toggle," or issue more bonds to pay interest in lieu of cash. The
debt-to-cash-flow ratio hit record highs, and more than 60% of junk bonds
issued are rated B or lower. Only 13% of high-yield issuance proceeds was for
capital expenditures for expansion--87% went for sponsor dividends, stock
buybacks, LBOs, or refinancings, none of which inherently advance credit
worthiness. And this exotic lending paid only 2.5% to 3.0% more interest than
Treasury bonds' 5.5%. Therefore investors received only 8% or 8.5% interest on
bonds that had a 25% probability of defaulting, the same ignoring of risk as in
subprime.
The cause was also the same. Wall Street made $100 of these credits into
tranches of securities that sold for $102 or more. Again we had securitization
pseudo-alchemy creating fool's gold. The weakest 5% or so of a $2 trillion
universe of leveraged loans and high-yield bonds will crater. This is only 1%
of GDP, but lending standards will tighten for a while, just as they did after
the telecom bubble burst.
Because of this outlook, WL Ross portfolio companies raised $2 billion this
year to eliminate outside financing needs. More recently, we provided a modest
$50 million debtor-in-possession financing to American Home Mortgage, the
tenth-largest subprime lender, as it entered bankruptcy. Ultimately, we will
make a major move into mortgages, because lending to weak borrowers makes sense
at premium rates with proper due diligence and appraisals. After Japan's
real estate bubble burst, we used a similar strategy to rehabilitate Kansai
Sawayake Bank. It was earning 17% a year on equity after one year, almost twice
the return typical of a Japanese bank.
------------- Price is what you pay.Value is what you get.
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Posted By: paragdesai
Date Posted: 18/Jun/2008 at 12:10pm
Many years back somewhere I read article about the Influence & Dominance of US currency in International Trading System. In which author had predicted the collapse of the US dollar (without giving any time frame) against major world currencies. This will prove be the first step towards the collapse of the US Economy. He was also indicating that whenever this situation occurs overall financial market will act violently & the transition period from Dollar quoted economy to another strong currency (now it looks like Euro) will be very painful.
I think we are passing through this period where Euro is presenting a threat to US Dollar. We are feeling the pain through high Inflation & Commodities price.
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Posted By: paragdesai
Date Posted: 30/Jun/2008 at 4:17pm
This is really very painful for US Citizens. Paying for voted George Bush to Power in last election. http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/jun2008/bw20080627_320852.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story - http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/jun2008/bw20080627_320852.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story
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Posted By: paragdesai
Date Posted: 02/Jul/2008 at 11:21pm
http://www.minyanville.com/articles/inflation-deflation-Fed-crisis-Credit-debt/index/a/17847/from/yahoo -
How The Bubble Bursts
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Posted By: PrashantS
Date Posted: 02/Jul/2008 at 2:43am
The June 2008 Dow Crash and the coming first strike attack on Iran herald
the end of dollar hegemony.
BREAK-DOW!
They say that pictures speak a thousand words, so let's start this with a
picture:

Today, the Dow crashed through its eight-year support level at 11,750. There
isn't much below now to keep it from dropping all the way back down to the
7,500-range. What that will do to American investor psychology and worse, consumer
confidence, and therefore spending, and therefore the economy, is only too
apparent.
The gold-attack on Monday obviously didn't take. Gold recovered the following
day and powered up by $26 the very next day to close in NY at $911. On Friday,
gold confirmed its breakout, which means there will be little holding it back
- just like there is now very little that's holding the Dow up.

Unsurprisingly, the US war machinery is in full swing at this time. Troop
and military asset movements into the Iranian theater are nearly complete,
the Israelis have flown their practice-attack of 100-plus fighter jets over
the Mediterranean, and Congress has again prostrated itself before its banking-guild
rulers who want total government (and therefore banking) of all economic activity.
Congress did this by passing the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 to give retroactive
immunity to telcoms spying for the government, and by proposing a resolution
(the already infamous H. Con. Res. 362) by which Congress demands that Bush
completely blockade Iran in order to force it to stop enriching uranium. This,
naturally, is a perfect setup for unleashing the long-planned bombing campaign
on Iran. Congressmen know that Iran will not accede to these international
demands.
End result: We will probably get another war because of all this, just like
we got one back in 2002-03 when the Dow plunged into the chasm this recently
broken support level has bridged for these past eight years (see chart above).
The problem is that this time, it is a bipartisan gang of US war mongers in
our Congress who all appear hell-bent on forcing Bush to attack Iran
with a preemptive strike, possibly even an unprovoked nuclear first
strike - something that human history so far has not had to deal with.
It is also something that will cause the US to forfeit any legitimate claims
of world leadership for the remainder of that history.
The War Currency
Wars are rarely fought over national security issues, as political leaders
often claim. At rock bottom, they are mostly fought over economic issues.
Iraq and Iran (if Congress and the administration get their way) are the only
two countries the US has ever attacked preemptively. They are also the only
two oil-producing countries that ever went off the petrodollar. The alleged
nuclear ambitions of a terrorist-sponsoring country cannot be the real reason
for the planned attack - because terrorist-sponsor North Korea was not
only allowed to develop nuclear weapons unmolested, it was even allowed to
test-launch a potentially nuclear-tipped ICBM at the US without any military
repercussions whatsoever.
There goes the "national security" rationalization for this planned attack.
This fact exposes the attacks for what they really are. tools of US monetary policy.
The dollar has no real value internationally, save for the fact that the now
militarily enforced necessity for countries to buy dollars in order to buy
oil creates artificial demand.
The euro's existence threatens all of this, now. Oil countries have a dollar-alternative
in the euro, and so does the rest of the world. The euro is designed to not
be quite as inflationary as the dollar is and has been. This is done by virtue
of the ECB's exclusive mandate of "price stability", another word for inflation
fighting.
Yet Another War Currency
Yet, even the euro carries the fiat-disease within it. Even the euro is structurally
inflationary - just at a slower pace than the dollar. Ultimately, even the
euro will fail, but it has served its intended purpose well: to sideline the
US dollar and thereby the dollar-based US empire.
The old US dollar empire has now served its own purpose as the engine for
global growth and for achieving general globalization. Like the Jumbo Jets
of yore that piggy-backed the early space shuttles perform their test flights
before they could finally launch into space on their own power, the US economic
mother ship has now fulfilled its purpose and is no longer needed.
In the globalists' view, the US can now safely be discarded because it has
inherent "flaws."
America has a constitutional system that, even though it has been successfully
neutralized to a large extent, was designed to protect individual freedom,
and that makes some of her people insist on them. Such cannot be tolerated
in a truly globalized world. It tends to make people of other countries want
to simulate the US and to insist on keeping their countries' sovereignty intact
to protect their own tenuous freedoms.
In the final analysis, therefore, the euro is a war currency as well. It is
a model currency, designed to centralize economic power in artificial, regional
political bodies and away from sovereign national governments. It is a currency
designed to abolish the nation state. It serves as the model to be implemented
by other regions: North America next, then Asia and Africa, later North and
South America combined, and eventually all of these regions will be forced
to bow to a supra-regional, global control mechanism.
This will only achieved by more warfare - except it won't be called "war" anymore.
Future military campaigns will be called "peace actions", for they will ostensibly
be waged to "enforce peace" - a linguistic and conceptual contortion that rivals
anything George Orwell could have dreamed up.
The Peace Currency
Gold is truly the peace currency. It needs no military to prop it up. It needs
no centralized control system to regulate its supply, only the natural, ultimately
decentralized controls of supply and demand. Wars may be fought over access
to gold mines some day, but correct me if I'm wrong, so far this has not happened
in history. Gold can easily be acquired in trade. Fighting a war over access
would be self-defeating because it costs more than the potential benefit could
yield.
So, the world is now faced by an America that claims it wants to "spread democracy" while
using its military to tyrannize countries that simply want to sell their oil
for another currency. America has become what she always claims to be opposed
to: an absolute tyranny that no longer even cloaks itself. Not surprising,
given the role assigned to her by her globalist masters in ushering in the
preconditions for eventual total centralization.
Gold is allowed to play its limited role in all of this because increased
use of gold for investment purposes, and as currency, tends to weaken the dollar-empire
and strengthen other regions (Europe), and nations (China).
Americans, however, have it within their power to mess up the globalist's
game plan for good. They have a chance to completely neutralize the eventual "winner" of
the globalists' remaining, hand-picked presidential candidates. They have a
chance to boot out every Congressman and Senator up for reelection this fall
who ever voted to pass measures such as the "Patriot" Act, the Military Commissions
Act, or the upcoming vote on House Concurrent Resolution 362 discussed above.
They can also fire all who refuse to vote for Ron Paul's Honest Money Act
designed to reintroduce gold and silver as the peace currency.
If they achieve this victory, Congress will, for once, pay attention to their
political will. Congress will then, for once, be a true check on presidential
executive power. Such a Congress can then even be moved to abolish the Federal
Reserve - but only if Americans start to pay attention to what power their
choice of currency can convey to - or withhold from - their government.
It's all up to them.
In the meantime, gold will have unbelievable bull runs as the US Fed carries
out Vladimir Lenin's instructions on how to "best" destroy the capitalist system
- by debauching the currency.
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Posted By: paragdesai
Date Posted: 02/Jul/2008 at 8:00am
Good informative article.
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Posted By: master
Date Posted: 17/May/2011 at 10:38pm
How do you like http://businesstoday.intoday.in/story/us-treasury-takes-emergency-measures-as-debt-hits-$14.29-trillion/1/15595.html - this
------------- Someone’s sitting in shade today because someone planted a tree long time ago.
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Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 17/May/2011 at 8:11am
Sometime over the next decade the US dollar is more likely to collapse like what Silver rallied in the recent past. With monetary measures the FED can only defer the catastrophy not avoid it.
------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Posted By: ramsey123
Date Posted: 17/May/2011 at 9:56am
Even at current interest rates of only 3% odd in the US, the interest expense for the US Govt comes to $414 billion. This means that roughly, if they ever let interest rates get above 9-10%, the govt will "default" and go bankrupt.
If they let interest rates continue the way they are, then we're already seeing what happens. In the future, this will lead to dollar destruction.
Either way...Bernanke and the dollar are damned. Not a good situation to be in.
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Posted By: FutureBull
Date Posted: 17/May/2011 at 10:01am
I am just worried about IT and outsourcing sector which will face inverted situation. wages in US will look cheaper
------------- ‘The market always does what it’s supposed to — BUT NEVER WHEN’.
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Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 17/May/2011 at 10:22am
Originally posted by ramsey123
Even at current interest rates of only 3% odd in the US, the interest expense for the US Govt comes to $414 billion. This means that roughly, if they ever let interest rates get above 9-10%, the govt will "default" and go bankrupt.
If they let interest rates continue the way they are, then we're already seeing what happens. In the future, this will lead to dollar destruction.
Either way...Bernanke and the dollar are damned. Not a good situation to be in. |
9% for a defaulting currency is too low but can it get there if it does there will be several bankruptcies in the world and a repeat of 2008 in a more deadly and sinister format.
------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Posted By: Kautilya
Date Posted: 17/May/2011 at 10:47am
I am no expert to talk about macro economics, but I do not think the US economy is going to collapse. China, Japan and other developing countries hold a major portion of the US debt. If the USD has to go down then these nations have to come out and sell them. Clearly we do not have a market that can absorb all those dollars and that should drive down the dollar. This is the scenario that is played down and I think it won't happen because it is going to harm China and Japan more than the US. Why would China do something that would erode the value of something that forms a major portion of its portfolio? What is more likely to happen is that US and China would continue to be in this stalemate, however the ability of the US to influence other countries politically and economically will come down over a period of time.
------------- My indecision is final.
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Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 17/May/2011 at 10:52am
Sounds logical let's see how long market forces are kept away from this.
------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Posted By: ramsey123
Date Posted: 17/May/2011 at 11:29am
Originally posted by basant
9% for a defaulting currency is too low but can it get there
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Actually, I recalculated after posting and it comes to around 11%. The real problem for them is that they considered their social security payroll tax as baap ka maal. This is close to $940 bn. If you take that out of the equation then their real income in 2010 is $1.44 trillion. So using the $414 bn in interest expenses, the approx rate at which the govt would default is around 11%.
I don't know whether to feel sorry or not for their taxpayers. In India, we've lived without social security but their older population is quite dependent on that. It's more like they've lived in luxury till now and will have to learn to live without it now.
Originally posted by basant
if it does there will be several bankruptcies in the world and a repeat of 2008 in a more deadly and sinister format. |
Totally agree. That will be the mother of all events, really. I don't need to elaborate on the European debt situation. It will just be one pop sound after another.
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Posted By: shivkumar
Date Posted: 18/May/2011 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by ramsey123
So using the $414 bn in interest expenses, the approx rate at which the govt would default is around 11%. |
There is a way for governments to mop up the deficit by taxation: it is called inflation.
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Posted By: ramsey123
Date Posted: 18/May/2011 at 12:30pm
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