JM Financials - A Financial services play
Printed From: The Equity Desk
Category: Investment Ideas - Creating winning portfolios!
Forum Name: Stock Synopsis
Forum Discription: A bried discussion of companies on very specific matters. Normally this is the prelude for further research as always members would be discussing quality companies with good management only
URL: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1150
Printed Date: 21/Apr/2025 at 12:27pm
Topic: JM Financials - A Financial services play
Posted By: getmanoj
Subject: JM Financials - A Financial services play
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 5:53pm
Hi, For last few months the performance of JM mutual fund has been better than other MFs. Reason might be "Sandeep Sabharwal". He had performed brilliantly as fund manager for SBI MF. Basant ji, the way JM financial is performing and also becoming bigger day by day, does it make sense in investing in JM Financial at these levels?
I don't know how to value their balance sheet or know what other activity they are doing other than MFs, so thought to put it on TED....
Manoj
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Replies:
Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 6:02pm
The best way to go about it is to take their AUm generally equity AUm is valued at 6% while debt goes for 3% and then compare this with the market cap. Any figures on that?
------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Posted By: getmanoj
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 6:38pm
Assets under management |
Rs. 4383.40 crore |
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as on |
Jul-31-2007 |
Market Cap on current date: 3990 crore.
Just going through the Annual report i found that Company has allotted 875,000 equity shares for an amount aggregating Rs. 55.91 crore to Mr. Azim Hasham Premji.....
Now when we have the AUM and market cap ...how can we measure if it is overvalued or undervalued?
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Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 6:41pm
The AUm is very small compared to the market cap. the company should also be having some cash and other businesses because if we take a 5% consolidated figure for the AUm then this is valued at Rs 240 crores which is almost nothing compared to the market cap!!!
What businesesn are they into apart from this?
------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Posted By: getmanoj
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 6:42pm
Sandeep Sabharwal also fulfills ur one of the criteria (IIT +IIM)....
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Posted By: getmanoj
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 8:02pm
I don't know if i am missing anything there but here you can find the Balance sheet of the company: http:// http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/stockpricequote/financeinvestments/jmfinancial/18/34/balancesheet/marketprice/JMF - www.moneycontrol.com/india/stockpricequote/financeinvestments/jmfinancial/18/34/balancesheet/marketprice/JMF Also at, http:// http://www.jmfinancial.in/DispAnnlReport.asp - www.jmfinancial.in/DispAnnlReport.asp
If you find time, please have a look.
Manoj
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Posted By: equity-shishya
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 8:10pm
I think Nimesh Kampani is the director of JM financial
JM is big time into M&A. From what I read, Nimesh seems to have a great rapport with the who&who of Indian Biz. This should ensure that JM gets a big share of M&A biz
Reliance banking fund has 7% allocation to JM
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Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 10:45pm
Investment banking is an interesting area of JM but then those who have Banks attached to them will always be in a better position for the mandate from their prospective clients. Also,JM operations is restricted to India, so global players like Morgan Stanley,UBS,GS will lead. IB is a people oriented business, salaries and bonuses are hitting the roof. So i am not comfortable with the M&A space, IPOs & FPOs are interesting though.
------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett
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Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 2:42am
JM Financials is one of the old time brokerages along with Enam and DSP that has its strengths in Fixed Income and Equity distribution, being lead managers and M & A. JM after seperating from Morgan Stanley is going it alone like Enam. It has bought stake in ASK for institutional brokerages. Don't know the terms of seperation and non compete agreements but strengths currently is Reputation of Nimesh Kampani in Business circles. The AMC business is also a focus area for them for the future.
------------- Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.
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Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 10:11am
WHile AMC is a great business model it is actually very fickle. Fund managers change AMC's and that takes away a lot of money so just buying a company on the basis of AMC could sometimes be counter productive. JM does remain one of the top players in investment banking and that should be the focus, I heard them talk about getting into retail broking sometimes not sure where I hard that.
------------- 'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 10:24am
Father in an interview with Menaka Doshi on CNBC had said that he has given Son the target for increasing market Cap of this company.
------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
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Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 24/Aug/2007 at 10:59am
Return of the action hero
If metaphors could describe Nimesh Kampani, it has to be the soldier essayed by Sylvester Stallone, now 61, in the hugely popular Rambo franchise. Hollywood’s favourite war veteran on celluloid, John Rambo saw action in Vietnam, Cambodia and Afghanistan. As stories go, Rambo battled huge odds, but had an incredibly successful run. He now lives a quiet life in Thailand. For that stab at immortality though, the cowboy soldier has to fight one last battle. Which is why, his creators are pulling him out of retirement to take up arms against a tin-pot dictator in Burma. How history remembers John Rambo will be decided in February 2008 when the fourth and final installment in the series hits the silver screen. It’s much the same thing with Kampani. The 61-yearold chairman of JM Financial has fought long and hard to earn his place in the sun. When few Indians knew what the stock markets were in the early eighties, he rammed convertible bonds into the country to raise Rs 50 crore for Tata Motors (then Telco). In socialist India, it was an audacious amount. Through the nineties, as Indian companies groped for direction, Kampani’s enviable network and consummate guile at striking deals ensured he was the investment banker of choice for corporate India. That was also why financial powerhouse Morgan Stanley knocked at his doors for a joint venture (JV) in 1997. Morgan had figured that without an ally like Kampani, India would remain out of bounds. Kampani’s exploits in business are the kind legends are made of. In 1999, he pulled off a coup by masterminding an alliance between the Tatas, Birlas, BPL Cellular and American telecom giant AT&T. Until then, India’s biggest business houses had never worked together in a formal relationship. Stock market veterans still speak in awe of the times Anil Agarwal of Sterlite attempted a hostile bid for Indal, the Indian subsidiary of Canadian aluminium major Alcan. An hour before the deal went through, a series of stunning moves on the stock market by Kampani—Alcan’s advisor—caught Sterlite by surprise and Agarwal had to give up on Indal. More recently, when the Ambani family went through a painful separation, a settlement was arrived at on the back of a formula worked out by Kampani. Much water has passed under the bridge since then. His position as India’s pre-eminent investment banker is under threat. Indian companies looking for global deals now turn to investment bankers with a global footprint. For instance, when Tata Steel went for Corus, JM Financial wasn’t part of the hunt. It wasn’t part of the pack when Hindalco went after Novelis either. Partners like Morgan Stanley, have figured India out. Kampani, in their scheme of things, isn’t needed any more; earlier this year, they paid him $455 million to exit the partnership. Because investment bankers talk little, it is difficult to figure whether Morgan Stanley’s exit hurt Kampani. “When they signed with me, they gave me $20 million to grow the business. When they left, I got $455 million. Accha hi hua na yaar?” he says with a smile that reveals infuriatingly little. If Kampani hangs up his boots now, history will remember him kindly. But a footnote will be added to the textbooks—that the law of averages finally caught up with him; and that he chose to walk away when the Indian economy and stock markets were at a point he had waited for all his professional life. If, on the other hand, he hangs in there and fights just this once, his war cry holds the potential to marshal the Indian financial services sector. In any which case, the business is on the verge of being hammered into submission by global players like Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs. They enjoy a huge advantage over their Indian counterparts—the ability to raise money abroad—and fund corporate India’s global ambitions. Kampani and his peers are constrained by a system that hasn’t allowed full convertibility of the rupee yet. If he works his way around the system, he will be remembered for a lot more than just creating a firm. And like John Rambo, it will give him that one last stab at immortality.
Being Nimesh Kampani
As we walk out of Kampani’s office for the second time in a week, we thank him for the six hours he’s spent talking to us. “I have all the time in the world now,” he says gently. It would take an idiot to believe that. Because right now, Kampani is in the thick of his toughest fight yet. “I am in the same position that Morgan Stanley was in 1972,” he reasons. “When American companies took off in the seventies, they needed the services of firms like Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs and Merrill Lynch. They grew together and achieved global scale together. The pattern will repeat itself in India,” he says. On the face of it, the argument sounds specious. Since the seventies, the world has changed dramatically and there is no evidence yet to indicate that Indian companies are sticking with Indian investment banks. Kampani concedes “competition from big firms will be huge”. What he has on his side, however, is a plan that draws on lessons he’s learnt over four decades.
Lesson 1: Look opportunity in the eye
“We’re a trillion dollar economy now,” he says. “If the rupee stays at current levels and growth continues, this economy will be worth $4-5 trillion soon.” The point Kampani is trying to make is this: Current growth and emerging opportunities have made India one of the best investment destinations in the world. Theoretically, that ought to translate into huge opportunities for asset management companies (AMC). “If you are a good fund manager, people will give you their money and you can scale up. You can easily get into managing $20-30 billion in 7-10 years. All it needs are a few smart people,” he reasons. Right now, JM Financial roughly has $2 billion in assets under management. The quest to build scale, Kampani believes, will compel him to acquire smaller boutique investment firms in other parts of the world—South East Asia first, Middle East next, Europe later and USA eventually. “I believe this is the only business that will be truly global for us,” he says. “The knowledge to operate in those markets can come only through acquiring companies and people. Fortunately, we are sitting on cash.” Then there is the fundbased business of the firm is exploring the NBFC (non-banking financial companies) and banking business. Two months from now, Kampani intends to apply for RBI permissions to get into the asset reconstruction business. As for insurance, it is an idea that has been thought about. “Perhaps, two years from now,” he says. Then there is the investment banking business. While he may not acknowledge it, it has perhaps been the closest to his heart. To his credit though, he doesn’t wear his heart on the sleeve and has the gumption to acknowledge that the landscape has changed for him. “It would be unrealistic to imagine we will be as big as Morgan Stanley or Merrill Lynch five years from now.” But he isn’t giving up on the business either. “If we deliver, in five years Indian investment banks will compete with the big boys.”
Lesson 2: Institutions, not individuals
Folks in business know Nimesh Kampani is a bigger brand than JM Financial. He reluctantly agrees. “I appreciate your point, but I need to fade away”. Apparently, he’s working hard at it. For starters, he doesn’t chair the weekly meetings anymore. “Every business has a CEO. How they run it is their problem, not mine.” If more proof is needed, he points to his son Vishal. “I could have made him the CEO. I didn’t. I have built the business. To take it to the next level, it is important the family looks at the business as shareholders. Only then can we create shareholder value. It’s not that Vishal will not play a role in the business. But he will act more as a shareholder and professional CEOs will run the business.” Eventually, he says, the CEOs will be the stars. “In two years, you will be talking to them, not me.”
Lesson 3: Systems matter
“The relationship with Morgan Stanley taught me the importance of systems,” says Kampani. Which is why, over the last three months, JM Financial has hired the services of Chlorophyll to document the company’s philosophy and what it stands for. By October, the agency is expected to complete its report. At the end of the exercise, Kampani expects a document to emerge that will articulate the company’s philosophy and what it stands for. “Something like the ten commandments,” he says. And if the document demands that the company’s image change, he is open to changing everything—from the logo of the outfit to the look and feel in its offices. “The stock markets are very attractive,” he explains. “When an organisation grows, there is always the danger of giving in to practices like insider trading. We need systems in place to contain greed. It is critical to us because we are in the business of trust.”
Lesson 4: Everything has a purpose
So what if his plans fail? Does he have a Plan B? Kampani counters the question with a story. There’s this king who injures a finger while fencing with his minister. “That was a good thing,” says the minister philosophically. The remark infuriates the king and orders the minister into jail. A little later, the king is kidnapped by savages who intend to sacrifice the king to appease their gods. Before putting him to the sword, they examine him for flaws and find the injured finger. Because a flawed man cannot be offered to the gods, they let him go. “I see God’s purpose,” says the king and gets the minister freed. “What purpose could God have in mind though when I jailed you?” he asks the minister. “If I were free, I’d be with you. And because you were injured, they’d have sacrificed me,” explains the minister. “Good story, na?” quips Kampani. (A weekly series on leadership) (TOI)
------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett
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Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 04/Apr/2008 at 3:09pm
http://businesstoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&Itemid=1&task=view&id=4571§ionid=25&issueid=25&latn=2 - Can team JM win?
the deal meister is also using that financial muscle to broad-base JM’s operations to encompass five broad areas: investment banking, institutional broking, fixed income, wealth management and asset management. The objective, as Kampani puts it, is to “become a full-fledged investment bank that can compete with the Wall Street banks domestically and be among the top 5 in all our businesses" |
------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett
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Posted By: investor
Date Posted: 04/Apr/2008 at 3:40pm
Wow - a post on this thread more than 9 months after the previous post? Is this some sort of a new record on TED?? 
------------- The market is a place where people with money meet people with experience.
The people with experience get the money while people with money get experience!
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