Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin

Sector talk
 The Equity Desk Forum :Investment Ideas - Creating winning portfolios! :Sector talk
Message Icon Topic: Power Stocks - What's Going On? Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 3 Next >>
Author Message
smartcat
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29/Mar/2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4243
Quote smartcat Replybullet Topic: Power Stocks - What's Going On?
    Posted: 05/Dec/2007 at 12:46pm
There are a few reasons why one should NOT  invest in companies that generate power like NTPC, Reliance Energy etc.
 
- Depends on Govt initiatives for growth and hence long term growth opportunities are suspect.
 
- Power Purchase agreement with state boards specify a fixed RoE of 14%. It could be lowered in the future depending on whims of the babus.
 
- Power is mostly sold to state boards which are themselves cash strapped.
 
Inspite of all these factors, why is every business house falling over each other to get into power generation?
 
- ADAG group is never known to get into boring businesses.
- Tatas have big plans with Tata Power
- Sterlite is joining the bandwagon with their Sterlite Energy IPO
- The big gang of infra companies from Andhra Pradesh - GMR, GVK, Lanco etc - all have big power plans.
 
The Jindals, JP Associates, the Adanis - think of a business house or a professionally managed large company - everybody wants to build mega power plants. Are we missing something here?
 
A few theories -
 
- I haven't read the Electricity Act 2003, but perhaps power plants can sell power to trading companies/industries after selling a particular quantum to State Electricity Boards?
 
- The power plant that Adanis are building in Mundra SEZ - they can sell 600MW on 'merchant basis'. I assume this means that power is sold to the highest bidder. SSKI report estimates that 600 MW can be sold at Rs. 4 per unit (Remember Reliance Power's bid for Sasan UMPP was for Rs. 1.12 per unit).
 
- In telecom sector, the companies made profit inspite of falling ARPUs because of rise in demand. Perhaps the same logic could be extended to power sector too?
 
- In USA, power utility companies like Consolidated Edison have huge market caps.
IP IP Logged
PKB2000
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/Aug/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1453
Quote PKB2000 Replybullet Posted: 05/Dec/2007 at 12:55pm
But if Investment is for 60 days then why not to invest in NTPC?
I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it. ~Pablo Picasso
IP IP Logged
PrashantS
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 14/Oct/2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1294
Quote PrashantS Replybullet Posted: 05/Dec/2007 at 1:07pm
power stocks might have lost steam....mundra and mundra kinds are the latest trends >power be alert could be headed down..but again it is your money and i not Nostradamus..But my guess is power in for a correction>best thing stick to TED and will have less worries
IP IP Logged
smartcat
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29/Mar/2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4243
Quote smartcat Replybullet Posted: 05/Dec/2007 at 2:41pm
if Investment is for 60 days then
 
Ouch. That hurts. Big%20smile
 
best thing stick to TED and will have less worries 
 
Ignorance might be bliss, but the willful ignorance can be injurious to wealth.
 
See, there is no difference between Ambanis/Adanis/Agarwals and you/me/TED members. Both the parties are interested in increasing their wealth. While we manage a Rs. 1 lakh portfolio, they juggle a Rs. 1 lakh crore portfolio - that's all.
 
The promoters could have gotten into power ancilliary businesses like transformers, boilers etc - but they haven't. And these are promoters who have made smart moves in the past - they are NOT the type who got into sugar manufacturing, failed, and now looking at power.
 
Basically, the business houses/promoters know something that we are not aware of. And that's what I want to find out.
IP IP Logged
deveshkayal
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/Sep/2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3903
Quote deveshkayal Replybullet Posted: 05/Dec/2007 at 2:45pm

Someone said on Diwali session on CNBC that "Higher the gestation period, higher the valuation" LOLLOL

"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett
IP IP Logged
smartcat
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29/Mar/2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4243
Quote smartcat Replybullet Posted: 05/Dec/2007 at 2:50pm
Valuation is a different issue. This is what Equitymaster.com says about how power companies should be valued -
 
Since power business is very capital intensive, valuation on the basis of P/E would be misleading because of higher depreciation factor. Therefore, valuing a power company based on P/BV (price/book value) should be a useful indicator.
 
As a cross check, for a generation company, one can value the stock based on the costing of Rs.4 crores per megawatt (if a company has 100 MW, the asset value is Rs. 400 crores. Add total debt and reduce liquid investments. Divide the sum by number of shares to get an indicative net asset value).
 
But the markets seem to be using this formula even before the power plant has been constructed. This means, if I announce in the papers tomorrow that I will be building a 1000 MW power plant on MG Road, Bangalore - I will be immediately worth Rs. 4,000 crores.
IP IP Logged
kulman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9319
Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 05/Dec/2007 at 3:15pm
.... if I announce in the papers tomorrow that I will be building a 1000 MW power plant on MG Road, Bangalore - I will be immediately worth Rs. 4,000 crores.
 
-----------------------------------
 
Will it be bio-gas based?
 
 
Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
IP IP Logged
PrashantS
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 14/Oct/2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1294
Quote PrashantS Replybullet Posted: 05/Dec/2007 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by smartcat

Valuation is a different issue. This is what Equitymaster.com says about how power companies should be valued -
 
Since power business is very capital intensive, valuation on the basis of P/E would be misleading because of higher depreciation factor. Therefore, valuing a power company based on P/BV (price/book value) should be a useful indicator.
 
As a cross check, for a generation company, one can value the stock based on the costing of Rs.4 crores per megawatt (if a company has 100 MW, the asset value is Rs. 400 crores. Add total debt and reduce liquid investments. Divide the sum by number of shares to get an indicative net asset value).
 
But the markets seem to be using this formula even before the power plant has been constructed. This means, if I announce in the papers tomorrow that I will be building a 1000 MW power plant on MG Road, Bangalore - I will be immediately worth Rs. 4,000 crores.



Well if infy comes out and says they are goign to launch  infy power ..it may see new highs .People are Running behind power like there is no tomorrow.But i guess everything is ok .I think someone mentioned the famous Enron Kenny.Can sell anything as long as there is a buyer
IP IP Logged
Page  of 3 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.
Bookmark this Page