Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin

Sector talk
 The Equity Desk Forum :Investment Ideas - Creating winning portfolios! :Sector talk
Message Icon Topic: PIPELINES: wealth carriers or down the drain? Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 4 Next >>
Author Message
kulman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9319
Quote kulman Replybullet Topic: PIPELINES: wealth carriers or down the drain?
    Posted: 21/Nov/2007 at 10:33pm

 PIPELINES

The major players are Welsp Guj, Man Ind, Jindal Saw, PSL, Mah Seamless, Ratnamani.  We have had some discussion about companies in Pipelines sector on TED briefly.
 
 
 
Here's an old but very relevant article Anjar: new global pipeline hub by Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyar: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1483079.cms
 
Today may not be very auspicious time to open new sectoral thread.
 
Most of these stocks have also run up too much ahead of earnings. However at certain prices during this corrective phase, some of these stocks would become attractive for investments.
 
Those who track this sector/companies please post your views/opinions.
 
 
Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
IP IP Logged
smartcat
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29/Mar/2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4243
Quote smartcat Replybullet Posted: 21/Nov/2007 at 11:57pm

I did some readng on pipeline companies after you mentioned it last time. These companies will be able to ride the boom in pan-India laying of pipelines for both industrial and residential use.

But to me, investing in pipeline companies feels like going down the value chain.
 
- The big theme is discovery of gas in various offshore basins. The gas needs to be brought down to the end-users via pipelines. But we can invest in RIL itself to ride the boom.
 
- If we don't want to invest in RIL, we could go to infrastructure players like Punj Loyd or L&T - who actually lay the pipelines. I think Punj Loyd's main expertise is pipeline laying. And since these are diversified players, they will be able to perform better than pipe companies if something goes wrong with this sector.
 
- Companies that manufacture pipes are only the third layer (in the value chain department) and hence carry their own risks.
 
IP IP Logged
kaushalchawla
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 348
Quote kaushalchawla Replybullet Posted: 21/Nov/2007 at 12:35pm
Smartcat,
 
I think i diagree with you. Compare this with power companies.
1. Discovery theme involves huge risks. (Like power producing companies....big investments etc)
2. Equipment supplier companies like BHEL are better off and hence i think pipe producers are better off.  They have to just deliver pipes for the network. They  dont care whether in the long term, owners of the pipeline are making money or not.
 
 
 
Warm Regards,
Kaushal
IP IP Logged
basant
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/Jan/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18403
Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 21/Nov/2007 at 7:04am
Pipe companies are manufacturing entities with a raw material price overhang. Punj and LT are service companies that can reflect high RoE's for longer period of time without any cyclical nature to earnings.
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
IP IP Logged
kulman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9319
Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 21/Nov/2007 at 8:29am

ROE: yeah, very true & important parameter.

Raw Material: I had read that these Pipe mfrs are able to manage the issue like Ship Builders.
 
The idea behind this topic is that at beaten down prices some of these stocks would come to levels where "Heads, we win; Tails, we don't lose much" kind of safety will be available. And we know that this is one of the growth sectors.
 
 
Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
IP IP Logged
smartcat
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29/Mar/2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4243
Quote smartcat Replybullet Posted: 21/Nov/2007 at 11:03am
They  dont care whether in the long term, owners of the pipeline are making money or not.
 
True - but like BHEL, even Punj Loyd (the second layer) will make money. Then why go to the third level (pipeline manufacturer) in the value chain? Let me give you another analogy -
 
If you are bullish on the retail sector, you should invest in Pantaloon. But if you feel Pantaloon has execution risk, then you could go for Blue Star  (the second level) which rides piggyback on growth in retail sector. But it won't be very profitable to go further down and invest in CFC (fluorine gas) manufacturers like Navin Fluoride or Guj Fluoro.
 
Also, the markets will automatically assign a low P/E for pipeline stocks because there is limited visibility in earnings after 20,000 km of pipeline has been laid in the next 3 years. I would be surprised if any of the pipeline companies reach market cap of something like Rs. 40,000 crores - the opportunity of scale is not there.
 
Meanwhile, companies like Punj Loyd can not only lay the pipelines but also build LNG terminals, refineries and even ports for export. That's why I can quickly make a case for Punj Loyd reaching a market cap of Rs. 50,000 crores.
 
Investment in pipeline companies will give good returns over the next few years - but it is not for 'buy and hold forever' type of investors.
IP IP Logged
smartcat
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29/Mar/2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4243
Quote smartcat Replybullet Posted: 21/Nov/2007 at 11:47am
Are there any distinguished linguists on TED? What does 'Stahl Rohren' mean in 'Welspun Gujarat Stahl Rohren'? It sounds German to me.
IP IP Logged
tigershark
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13/Oct/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3542
Quote tigershark Replybullet Posted: 22/Nov/2007 at 1:26pm
it is german punj mkt cap is around 13000 crs  if it does go to 50000 crs then smart cat 2nights 3 days stay in goa at my expense.
understanding both the power of compound return and the difficulty getting it is the heart and soul of understanding a lot of things
IP IP Logged
Page  of 4 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.
Bookmark this Page

Join Theequitydesk.com Today!

It’s easy to Join and it’s free.

Here's why members would love to be a part of theequitydesk.com

  • Equity Desk focuses on why to buy shares and invest in share rather than what to buy.
  • Live discussion forum wherein members can discuss the current Indian share Market trend, BSE Sensex or the Nifty Index.
  • Have huge cache of information on Indian and World Share Market.
  • Analysis of Indian stock market, Global events, Investing insights, portfolio management strategies and thoughts,
  • Meet investors from round the globe check their investing strategies share experiences and learn for their experiences on stocks and shares, evaluate opinions on investing in India.

Register now while it’s free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us           Close