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BubbleVision
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Quote BubbleVision Replybullet Posted: 29/Aug/2006 at 7:11pm
Hi Ajith,
Can you give some links about Ralph Wanger.... And was he a TA, Funda or a Hybrid.....
TIA
You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!
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Ajith
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Quote Ajith Replybullet Posted: 29/Aug/2006 at 10:35pm
  Basically funamental, I think.Read Ralph Wanger's  book to find out more-A zebra in lion country.

Edited by Ajith - 29/Aug/2006 at 8:05am
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BubbleVision
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Quote BubbleVision Replybullet Posted: 31/Aug/2006 at 4:58pm
BasantJi,
you had mentioned somewhere else on the forum.. about Real Estate and Real Estate Valuations where every big rally has resulted in a bloodshed....... I know for sure.. that it happened in Japan.... Can you point out some links where we can read more about that.....
 
Japs.. recently changed the method by which they calc Inflation and According to the new method .. They were in a Deflation as recently as May-06. I guess then they were wrong in raising intrest rates back then... Do you have any views on that....the Economic data is controlled by the Govt (as believed by Dr Gloom and Doom)
 
I also head a new thing on the BubbleVision earlier this morning
"South Korean Tech stocks are UP because of a fall in crude prices"... I am wondering what is the relationship between the two...
You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 31/Aug/2006 at 5:10pm
South Korean tech stocks up: Tryinmg for a reason ..... Got it as crude prices fall the techies will pay less on fuel so lower reimbursement from the employer, lower salary jikes lower expenses, higher profits.Bullish for technology It was so simple!!!!
 
Another one I am not sure but do Koreans run their comp on petrol no they run it on power so power plants will charge less because they take fuel as input (Assuminmg no suzlon in korea) so lower power to run comp means lower cost means higher profits!!!
 
The Asian crisis in the late nineties was initiated in the back drop of balloning real estate prices. People bought houses on mortgage as property prices were going up so there were notional gains that made the installments free.... It takes special skills to make money in real estate.
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Quote BubbleVision Replybullet Posted: 31/Aug/2006 at 5:16pm
Any views on the Govts Manipulating the Economic Data.... to their advantage....
You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 31/Aug/2006 at 5:21pm
It happens. Now with crude up by about 40% and all metals also up by similar amounts how the US consumer data shows only single digit inflation beats me. They can do two simple things:
 
1) Remove an item that rises too fast
2) Shuffle weightages across commodities
 
Not an expert at this but I would NOT believe any one who tells me that this data on which people bet billions is not manipulated. The degree of manipulation may vary from Russia, China to India and US


Edited by basant - 31/Aug/2006 at 5:22pm
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Quote omshivaya Replybullet Posted: 09/Sep/2006 at 10:45pm
Right on. Manipulaton is there for sure! vegetables are getting costlier year on year, but the inflation govt. says is controlled and small...
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it
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Quote Janak.merchant1 Replybullet Posted: 16/Apr/2008 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by basant

The dividing line between Hope and Hype

 

There are numerous instances in life when investors are unable to differentiate between Hope and Hype. To the intelligent and the informed (if ever there are in the stock markets) hype is exaggerated and unrealistic hope. While the words sound quite similar the after effects of each of these waves are extremely contrary to one another. Hope lends light to life while hype leaves behind financial scars that are difficult to get away from. Very often in cases of hype the music stops but the people are still seen dancing. It is painfully ironic that both hope and hype are four letter words.

 

Sir Isaac Newton remarked in the early 1700’s, “I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies but not the madness of people”.

 

It may be of significant interest to the bruised and battered bulls of Himachal Futuristic and DSQ Software (Stocks that fell 99% and more off their 2000 peaks) that Newton doubled his money in the South Sea Company. He made a profit of 7,000 pounds and then the hype got to him again. He re-entered again at the peak and lost 20,000 pounds. Did any one say that even Newton could not defy the laws of gravity?

 

Many would say that the Nasdaq rise in 2000 was hype. The 2000 tech bubble was a complex mixture of  hope with hype. Initially till 1998 stocks rose on hope - thereafter the rules of the game changed from revenue and profitability to eyeba*ls, number of web site hits and so on. While smart investors cried hype and bought on mistaking the hype for hope the lesser intelligent mortals as usual were the first ones to be trapped. The wonderful thing in hype or momentum investing is that people expect the end to be sudden painful and catastrophic but refuse to accept that they could be trapped.  “ Behti Ganga mein haath dho lo” (Wash your hands in the running river) is the common advise and “It is different this time” is the general mistake. In stock market parlance this is known as “Momentum Investing”. Caveat emptor - the running river surely has the power to run away not only with your hand but also with your house. Usually the hype again ends with hope – the hope to make good your losses but betting on this hope is hopeless as stocks rarely retrace their peaks in a hurry.

 

How do you spot Hype: Analysts, investment bankers and stock market commentators give out the first signs of hype. Whenever the basic rules of investment are altered and changed to suit the already absurd looking valuations one may conclude that hype is engulfing hope. The replacement cost theory in 1992 took me over. When I bought shares of Tata Steel at 700+ in 1992 (at the height of the Harshad Mehta boom) I desperately tried to convince friends and relatives that the cost of setting up a Steel plant of equivalent capacity would far exceed the market capitalization of Tisco, I was upbeat on the land at Jamshedpur, the cross holdings that Tisco shared with other Tata group companies and lo and behold after a dozen odd years I am yet to see that price leave alone the interest. Why should we talk about interest as they refuse to calculate interest in stock investments perhaps inserting the interest element would make stock losses look more concerning then they actually appear to be?

 

In 1989 the Japanese Stock Index (Nikkei) sold at 70 times forward earnings and at 40,000 investors were still betting on the bulls. Probably they were betting on a price earning expansion from 70 to about 100. Hype was certainly enveloping the air. In the next decade and a half the Nikkei has given away 75% of its 1989 peak.

 

During the 2000 tech bubble or shall we call it a tech balloon when analysts and investment bankers were unable to justify the phenomenally high and absurd valuations of internet companies a new word was discovered “eyeba*ls”. The magical theory of eyeba*ls substituted Cash flows, Revenues, Net profits (the traditional theories of equity valuations). People were basing calculations on the growth in eyeba*ls year after year. One of the largest Indian Software Companies (Satyam Computers) bought an obscure looking Internet Company for Rs. 499 crores. History was made and all leading newspapers pink and white carried photographs of the smart gentleman who sold a company with sales of about Rs 1 crore at almost 500 times sales. Now did you ever think that it is only the retail investors who invested on hype?

 

How can Retail Investors safeguard themselves: Many investors assume that periods of hype are the times to make money. Just buy at the initial signs of activity and sell at the top. For the intelligent however hype is the time to safeguard his wealth, his house and also his shirt.

 

The strength of character in a retail investor lies in fending off these hypes. When he watches his neighbor changing his old Maruti for a Lancer a desire to graduate from a motorcycle to a car is bound to generate. Unfortunately after a while both of them are seen looking for rented one room apartments swearing never to see the face of the broker and the markets.

 

A man of strong character would fall back to the basics probably invest some money where he sees reason rather then hype. All great investors including the likes of Warren Buffet advise investors to pull out of the markets but to me that kind of a foresight is neither existent nor expected. Only if investors were to avoid stocks in which the hype factor exceeds the hope quotient the battle is won. After all the trick to investing in the stock markets is to avoid losers as much as it is to pick up the winners.

 

A few interesting moments when the world went Hype(r)

 

The Hype

And the Bust!

What they gave /

taught us

The Tulip bulb mania 

Tulips were bid up more then 50 times and people sold land and homes to buy Tulip bulbs. Finally as with all manias the smarter guys offloaded and the common man was left holding his tulip flower

That flowers are flowers and should never be looked at like investments.

US Rail road accident of the  1850’s

While business was booming and the sector needed excess doses of capital, unrest and war in Europe signaled rising interest rates. An over supply of paper by the Railroads coincided with European investors pulling out from US bringing down stocks from their highs.

 

A network of Rail and Road Transport line connecting the whole of the United States.

Bull Markets of the early 1920’s

The bull market of the early 1920’s was followed by the Great depression of 1929 – 33 where stocks gave back 90% of their value

.

An Industrial boom and also renowned economists like Keynes.

Japanese Stock Market boom 1989

At 40,000 the Nikkei was discounting its earnings 70 times. The index was at a P/E of 70 times. The index lost 75% in about 10 years and looks set to shed a few more.

 

Lessons that everything that goes up in a hot air balloon must come down once the air is out.

The crash of the Asian Tigers

(1995 - 98)

A false sense of Real estate boom was incorporated as banks lent more on Real estate. Particularly piquant was the doubling of property prices in Hong Kong in about 3 years encouraging tenants to take mortgages, - finally sanity prevailed and Real estate prices headed southwards.

 

Emerging markets are very easy for investors to make money and also to give back what they make.

The Hot Dot Com Tech bubble (1997-2000)

Analysts, Fund managers, Investment bankers forgot their text books and started valuing companies on the basis of eye ba*ls, web site hits etc. For Companies with Revenues and Cash flows the growth rates were assumed to be 100%. That means a Company was expected to grow sales by 500 times in 10 years.

The Computer, software, productivity growth and the Internet without which this report would never have gone to you

 

How many times have we seen the Indian markets going up on the basis of high FII flows the previous day? Well as they say markets are never wrong only opinions are. It is really a very confusing and complicated place to make a living.

 
 
P.S: Would like the readers to list the their picks in the over hyped sectors it could be brokerages, retailing, infrastructure, sugar anything so that we could discuss on the sectors and bring out the finer points.
 

 

 
Dear Basant,
 
We as investors shud not keep EFGH that is emotions fear greed and hope. BTW, have u read Famous Financial Fiascos? Any particular insights u wud want to share?
 
Best wishes,
 
JM
I love my money, not my opinion. So i am ready and willing to change my opinion for the sake of protecting my money.
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