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Fundamental
 The Equity Desk Forum :Market Strategies :Fundamental
Message Icon Topic: Never buy a cyclical for the long term Post Reply Post New Topic
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Hitesh Shah
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Quote Hitesh Shah Replybullet Posted: 30/Aug/2009 at 8:03am
Another cycle to consider & wake up this topic?

Inflammatory quote from the link:

Majority of our investment problems do exist because we don’t want to admit cyclicality, which exists everywhere and at all levels of time.



Edited by Hitesh Shah - 30/Aug/2009 at 8:06am
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vishmitt
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Quote vishmitt Replybullet Posted: 11/Oct/2009 at 9:55pm
Just wanted to check if anyone tracks textiles?
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bijoy_ajj
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Quote bijoy_ajj Replybullet Posted: 25/May/2010 at 7:12pm

Basantji,

Can you list some cyclic stocks and its corresponding cycles.. (eg: March - june stock will raise etc.. ).

Thanks in advance!!
 
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j2eeprofessiona
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Quote j2eeprofessiona Replybullet Posted: 25/May/2010 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by bijoy_ajj

Basantji,

Can you list some cyclic stocks and its corresponding cycles.. (eg: March - june stock will raise etc.. ).

Thanks in advance!!
 


interesting question.... if it was so easy to predict and play cycles, everyone would be a billionaire..
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chimak10
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Quote chimak10 Replybullet Posted: 25/May/2010 at 7:38pm
Cyclic means business fundamental wise not month wise.

Say sugar will there be demand supply mismatch or say infra companies would companies build new plants and spend money on new machinery and stuff like that.

But the logic is funny tho month wise cycle of stocks.


Edited by chimak10 - 25/May/2010 at 7:40pm
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chimak10
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Quote chimak10 Replybullet Posted: 25/May/2010 at 7:48pm
Now investopedia says this about cyclical

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cyclicalstock.asp

& this

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cyclical_industry.asp



Edited by chimak10 - 25/May/2010 at 7:49pm
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bijoy_ajj
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Quote bijoy_ajj Replybullet Posted: 25/May/2010 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by chimak10

Cyclic means business fundamental wise not month wise.

Say sugar will there be demand supply mismatch or say infra companies would companies build new plants and spend money on new machinery and stuff like that.

But the logic is funny tho month wise cycle of stocks.


Big%20smileBig%20smileBig%20smile.... I knew that i would get some tough answers thats the reason y i addressed to basant ( i av noticed that he don't give stiff comments if some one addressess him directly.. Wink).. Actually i have noticed that once the monsoon is on then fertilizers stocks do rise.. I was tryin to extent same logic.. Embarrassed
Big%20smile
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vinvestor2010
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Quote vinvestor2010 Replybullet Posted: 25/May/2010 at 11:53pm
Hi would like to just give my two bits to help us get a framework around this discussion. It is a really interesting post and could not help reading all the stuff way back from the 06 messages.
We need to look at stocks from four time span perspectives for trends
seasonal, cyclical,generational and eternal
seasonal-these are stocks like sugar and other agricultural commodities which are actually seasonal and vary year by year. These are to be traded
cyclical-stocks like steel companies which go up/down every few years and most commodity companies. These need to be bought on dips, however you never know the final dipBig%20smile
generational-stocks that do well for a extended time period usually a generation when there is a need for the product in the broader economy for many years e.g railways in US for almost 30-40 years when the network was being setup. All commodity stocks for last few years as first China and now India , Indonesia etc go about building the basic blocks of their societies
eternal- haven't found one yet. Buffett claimed that Coke (as a proxy for FMCG)was one such stock , however that is not the case, in the last few years focus has shifted sharply to health based drinks and Pepsico has done much better. Gold is probably one thing which has been eternal
Within these trends one has to find the right stock to ride along and for the right timespan and that is incredibly difficult. Also estimating the timespan and therefore what is long term is next to impossible in most cases
 
Location of the trends
From time to time within an industry/country we also have micro trends
eg in IT we had desktop computing that gave rise to Microsoftr then offshoring that gave rise to Infosys, then search that gave rise to Google etc
Sometimes demographics can also drive several business trends e.g cars and rock and roll music in post Baby boom USA. Young demographics and coffe shops and cyber cafes in India.
 
Will the trend make us any money
Sometimes the trend may exist but it will never make you rich. Two examples - Airlines overall, open source software.
Also the trend will have it's hype period e.g the Internet did make money for Google , but several other dotcoms during the hype period failed
 
how can we optimize our chances in all of these?
Don't know yet but regularly reading stuff and a little luck can raise the chances
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