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Buffet, Lynch and other legends - Investing Strategies
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Topic: Why are portfolio Managers like Zebras?
    Posted: 29/Aug/2006 at 10:40am

Why are portfolio Managers like Zebras?

 

Ralph Wangner’s learning is a unique blend of psychology and financials. He compared fund Managers to Zebras. He found no difference between the animal and the man. Here is how he expressed his views

 

Category

Similarity traits

Profits

Both zebras and the Institutional Managers run after profits

Risks

Both hate to take risks

Movement

Both prefer moving in herds. In all the large cap funds the top 60^ of the portfolio is very similar.

 

The  theory went further and Wangner argued that Fund Managers like Zebras are of two types, the aggressive and the defensive. The aggressive zebra stands outside the herd. Here the grass is fresh and green but the risk of being pounced upon by the lion is also the highest. Similarly the defensive zebra stands in the inner ring. Here the grass is trampled and rarely fresh During an attack the Lion takes the zebras on the outer ring thus leaving the half fed inner ring zebra to fight another day.

 

Compare the grass to the returns that fund managers make. The outer ring fund manager refer to our friends like Samir Arora  who would have bought an Infosys and a Satyam in 1997 while the inner ring refers to managers who would have preferred buying Reliance and ITC during those times

 

The stock analogy can be extended further. Let us analyze a situation where a fund manager’s top five holdings are Reliance, Infosys Technologies, Bharti Airtel and HLL and ITC as his top 5 holdings and all of them go down with the market. In this case his investors would complaint about the companies or the markets or the US economy (because of which Infosys had to reduce its guidance) or the govt. for imposing regulations on smoking.

 

On the other hand if the another fund manager had bought into Suzlon Energy, Pantaloon Retail, Financial technologies,Titan, and TV 18 If the markets fell by 30% and these stocks went down by 40% we have no problems guessing whom investors would have blamed.

 

Market timing: Wangner explains the similarity between market timers through the zebra – lion relationship. Sometimes the zebra (in order to have the green grass) gets too near to the sleeping lion thinking that when the lion awakes they would make a quick run away into the open land. The lion does awake but by that time the zebras are already near the exit but the sheer number of zebras makes exit impossible for all the animals and some get caught. Institutional and retail investors want to time the market and normally buy and sell shares but their own buying and their own selling tends to have an opposite effect on the price leading to volatility and price swings. In the process they get caught trying to switch between cash and stocks.

 

Wangner does not end here he says that portfolio managers write economic forecasts that are wrong and boring. He would personally prefer writing a forecast that is interesting and wrong rather then wrong and boring. A forecast that is interesting and equally correct has been put on this forum.

 



Edited by basant - 21/Mar/2007 at 12:10pm
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BubbleVision
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Quote BubbleVision Replybullet Posted: 30/Aug/2006 at 12:07pm
Yes,
As they say "It takes courage to be a pig" or should i say Zebra...and those who have that courage are successful.


Edited by BubbleVision - 30/Aug/2006 at 12:12pm
You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!
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Quote Ajith Replybullet Posted: 30/Aug/2006 at 9:33pm

 It is so easy to get into the herd mentality particularly on a messageboard .I experienced it in 2000 when for once I fell into this trap.Fortunately for me I had entered early and my holdings in tech stocks had appreciated 17 times.I used to enquire about quotes of GAIL and HDFC(40 and 600(pre bonus)) for a switch and that would have been truly contrarian which appealed to me but my frequent visits to the messageboard  and arguing for the valuations of Infosys and Wipro was one of the reasons for my confused decisions at that time.

That is why I am reluctant to arrive at a jolly consensus.I admire 2 voices (then strongly opposed by the majority)which suddenly came on that messageboard to just offload at the peaks.
 Sameer Arora is fiercely independant in his thinking.
 Suzlon achieved this market cap in such a short period.
 How many more such Suzlons will bloom over the next 6 years?
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 30/Aug/2006 at 9:49pm
Samir did not sell at the top. In fact he regretted at not having got out at the peak but he had got in very very early. he bought 5% of Satyam in 1995 and that speaks for the man's vision. he also bought HDFC Bank so we cannot call him a mommentum player.
 
Many people can be right at the tops and the bottoms but I would repect the man who sold out at the top after having entered at the bottom.If I was bearish about Infotech in 1995 I would be 100 times bearish in 2000 and my opinion should not count the other hand if I had got in early and became bearish in 2000 after having sold off the multibaggers then this opinion DOES count. Can you share the name of these two gentlemen?Did they became bearish after making money or otherwise.
 
The trick to getting a SUzlon is "New business". You cannot get a Suzlon in Steel or cement or anythiung that is conventional and already there. Old is gold would not work here.
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Quote Ajith Replybullet Posted: 30/Aug/2006 at 10:54pm
 I think rather than be constrained by the idea that  new businesses is the area to look at ,one must star of with some strong emerging trend-let me start with a startling  and tremendous trend that I read about today-the number of millionaires in India is growing at a rate that is 3 times higher than China.I am also certain that  stupendous buying power is emerging even at the upper and middleclass levels and  cars are going to be in unexpectedly strong demand but that is three fourths discounted in the price of Maruthi so which other companies will really takeoff?Who benefits?Who will capitalize on this?There are answers that are fairly obvious but one must go beneath the surface to pick tomorrows big winners.For that observation(as you mentioned about seeing) hard work plus contacts is needed.Also if there is anyone
among todays fund managers as good as Sameer Arora(we will know after a few years )we can track that fund.I personally like some of the picks of Reliance,Sundaram and Fidelity.
Sameer Arora was continuously justifying the valuations and then it becomes difficult to be objective about valuations in order to sell.I have taken the decision (past 2 years)to just not  constantly discuss the pros and cons of my holdings with friends and relatives .Otherwise you are constantly justifying the valuations and you lose objectivity.It really is difficult to take right selling decisions. 
  The 2 gentlemen are unknown.This was a messageboard with one central character who was extremely knowledgable and continuously justifying tech valuations along with several others.But 2 voices came at the peak saying prices are going to crash-very cool ,and questioning valuations.
 As you say I will look at new businesses but with a wary eye on fundas,emerging competion and valuations-as always.


Edited by Ajith - 30/Aug/2006 at 11:15pm
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Vivek Sukhani
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 30/Aug/2006 at 11:03pm
Mr. Basant it simply depends upon the horizon which you are considering. I think no stock be it Infosys or ITC or HLL or be it Pentaloon or whatever for that matter, is good beyond a point.... and no stock is bad be it a petty small cap at a price less than a particular price.I liked Balrampur Chini a lot @ 52 but sold it off at 152... I am a die hard fan of GE Shipping but I wont mind selling it if I get my target. Mr. basant, the skill lies in correct exits, rather than holding on to gains.there's a thing called maximisation but then there's another thing called optimisation. Instaead of waiting for a stock to double in 6 years , its better to get into stock where you discover more value...you have got to be enterprising rather than become defensive.
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 30/Aug/2006 at 11:13pm
I am impressed by the thought
 
"I have taken the decision (past 2 years)to just not  constantly discuss the pros and cons of my holdings with friends and relatives "
 
- Is it because they tend to confuse you and could panic you into selling That might happen if you have unusual names and are sitting on profits. the hardest temptation to avoid is not to sell an unusual name on which you are sitting on a very large profit.
 
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 30/Aug/2006 at 11:16pm
I buy pessimism and sell optimism.If I am getting a petaloon at 1600 and a tata power at 525, I dont know I will simply make a switch. If I am getting an ONGC for a 1220 and a tata power, I will simply jump to ONGC.You have got to sit with your purses ready and your DPs ready to make a kill.And I have always found it more prudent to limit my downside before looking at my upside as an investment strategy.Thats why I will never have a Titan which are friends only of good times. Thats why I will never have a Shree renuka Sugars or Bajaj Hindustan. I dont want to lose 40 p.c. in a span of 3 days, gentleman. I know I sound very contemptuous but then I dont like buying without knowing my downside.
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