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Equity Valuation Techniques
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 12/Apr/2008 at 9:52am
I think that you are tring to price in the stocks at fair and unfair value which in our normal investing career is a hindsight event.
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Vivek Sukhani
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 12/Apr/2008 at 11:51am
If you view stock price as the sum of past retained earnings per share and future accumulated earnings per share, you are not likely to fail. I understand its fashionable to make mockery of such statements, but I doubt how many people have failed using this approach.  
 
Its like this Vijay Sir, you have got to identify your goals and watch its progress. Say for instance, if you want to make 20 times your nitial investment over next 10 years. The next thing you have got to understand is the situation which you are faced with
 
Now just think, you can make that return by making a 2 time in 5 years and a ten timer in next five following the first five years. Problem happens because most of the time people want to make 5 times in no time and the balance 2 time in the difference of the years.
 
If I look at your analysis, the first thing which I will do is a very serious knock-down. Also, what is this confidence? And whose confidence is it, anyway? Are you doing a hypothesis testing or a chi-squared test or what? If you have 50 p.c. confidence that a company will clock 50 p.c. growth, it doesnt mean that the company is certain to clock 25 p.c. growth. Actually, I am unable to get what does confidence mean here.
 
Also the way discounting is nowadays done, sometimes baffle me. How do people make CMP express in X times forward EPS. At CMP, forward EPS shall be discounted and assigned a reasonable multiple, thats what most of us have been taught. So, people express something as value, when actually its not value. Say for instance a stock is trading at 500 and is expected to clock 50 rupees 3 year hence. People say its 10 times FY(X+3). I beieve its a very gross error which people do. You must first bring this 50 rupees to its present value. At 10 p.c discounting( your own required rate of return) , the present value of 50 is 37.56. So, this stock shall be expressed at 13.31 times for its future earnings rather than at 10 times, as is being done.
 
So, before you embark on winning strategies, you should embark upon studies which help you not to lose.
 
I am also a student in finace like you are. So, I hope my point may help you in carrying out our studies together. I wish to learn more strategies from you and i am sure you will be able to set your rules once you become equipped to equalise your plans and your goals.
 
Regards,
 
Vivek 
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shivkumar
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Quote shivkumar Replybullet Posted: 13/Apr/2008 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by vijayM

One more point. If we consider the case of L&T, it was quoting at 4700 in January. If  one has used the method of calculating Intrinsic value as I have demonstrated in that table, with 40% growth rate the stock would have looked cheap at 4700 with int value being 7694. (However PEG (1y proj) was >1.5 when it was at 4700.) We all know that now it is at 2777. How to understand this?
 It had value at 4700 & now has more value at 2777. How investor should judge a fair price for buying under such situations?
vijayM


Vijay, have you tried calculating the PEG growth of Punj Lloyd? If L&T has fallen so much, P L has fallen even sharper. So the latter should be even more attractive considering that P L is likely to be the next L&T.
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kulman
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Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 13/Apr/2008 at 12:54pm
Came across this in an article...



If the stock market were high school, the growth and value investors / fund managers would be rival gangs fighting for supremacy. Each camp believes firmly that their style — “focusing on fast-growing companies” or “focusing on bargain companies” — is the best. Can we all just get along?

Warren Buffett often describes himself as both a growth investor and a value investor, citing himself as a blend of Ben Graham and Phil Fisher.

It’s a prudent way to reduce risks in your investments. You don’t want to overpay for growth. You also don’t want to buy a bargain that only stays stagnant.

This is one of the reason that Buffett focuses on “best of breed” companies that have fallen out of favour. His portfolio of companies enjoys high growth rates, high return on assets / equity and he buys them when they are cheap.

So don’t be simply looking for bargains, nor should you be tunnel-visioned on growth-rates. By considering both techniques, it will make you a better investor!



As WB says,
Growth and value investing are joined at the hip.”........................... but one must value & protect his first.



Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
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vijayM
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Quote vijayM Replybullet Posted: 13/Apr/2008 at 11:48pm
Dear Teddies,
 
Let me putup an analysis made by WB about coca cola stock in 1999.
 
Price: $89    Growth rate: 14.5%   EPS: $1.3  P/E: 68
Avg P/E:22 Div:40% Nature of company: steady growth
 
OBJECTIVE: TO GET 15% CAGR
 
Year    EPS
2000   1.49
2001   1.70
2002   1.95
2003   2.23
2004   2.56
2005   2.93
2006   3.35
2007   3.84
2008   4.40
2009   5.03
total   30.79
 
 
Price you need in 10 years to get 15%       : $  360.05
Expected 2010 price                                   :  $ 110.77
Plus dividend                                              :  $ 11.8
total return                                                 :  $ 122.57
expected 10Year rate of return                  :   3.3%
Highest price you can pay to get 15% rate of return: $ 30.3
 
CONCLUSION: 3 TIMES OVERPRICED. WB didnot add this stock during 1999-2000.
 
*Ref: How to pick stocks like WB by Vick.
 
Comments welcome.
 
vijayM
 
If a business does well, the stock eventually follows:Warren Buffett
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vijayM
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Quote vijayM Replybullet Posted: 13/Apr/2008 at 11:52pm
In the same context let me try HDFC Bank Analysis:
 
 
STOCK HDFC BANK OBJECTIVE: TO GET MINIMUM 15% RATE OF RETURN
PRICE 1330 GROWTH RATE (%) 30
EPS 43.6 AVG P/E 30
P/E 31 DIVIDEND (%) 20
YEAR EPS
1 56.68
2 73.68
3 95.79
4 124.53
5 161.88
6 210.45
7 273.58
8 355.66
9 462.36
10 601.06
TOTAL 2459
PRICE YOU NEED TO GET 15% IN 10 YEARS: 5381
EXPECTED 10 YEAR FORWARD PRICE: 18032
DIVIDEND EXPECTED 492
TOTAL RETURN 18524
10 YEAR RATE OF RETURN (%) 30
HIGHEST PRICE YOU CAN PAY TO 
GET 15% RATE OF RETURN 4579
REMARK: UNDERVALUED
If a business does well, the stock eventually follows:Warren Buffett
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 13/Apr/2008 at 7:34am
Do not think that Coke was such an issue the PE that it commanded in then initial year coupled with growth indicated that  price was high!
 
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vijayM
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Quote vijayM Replybullet Posted: 13/Apr/2008 at 11:11am
Basant ji,
 
1]any suggestion on HDFC Bank calculations shown, regarding assumptions made and interpretation of reults got.
2]where do we get avg P/E information and growth rate projections information?
 
thanks
 
vijayM


Edited by vijayM - 13/Apr/2008 at 11:13am
If a business does well, the stock eventually follows:Warren Buffett
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