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shuchi
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Quote shuchi Replybullet Topic: Oil Bonds- Whom is Govt. trying to fool?
    Posted: 13/Oct/2006 at 6:11pm
plz could you explain me what are oil bonds? and how is it a hedge for companies who sell oil below their production cost .
 
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 13/Oct/2006 at 6:37pm
The oil marketing compnaies are issued oil bonds.When the price of crude (raw material) was up their selling price was fixed (Since the Govt. did not want the retail price of oil to go up). The Govt. to compensate these oiuld marketing companies issued them with bonds called "oil bonds" - These are redeemable after a epriod of time and equals the difference between the normal and subsidised price of petrol and diesel. If the Govt. did not issue these bonds HPCL and BPCL would have gone sick.That would have meant the "red flag" fluttering even higher.
 
Basically it is a neat way to fool every body Govt. sells cheap petrol and wins votes; issues oil bonds and increases expenditure; raises taxes to make up for the oil bonds. So instead of paying more for oil people are paying more taxes.
 
It is a shame that the Prime Minister of this country is an economist and the Finance Minister a Harvard Grad. Both of them should be told that:
 
" You can fool all the people some times, some of the people all times but not all the people all the time"
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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monu_duggad
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Quote monu_duggad Replybullet Posted: 13/Oct/2006 at 7:25pm
I could not have agreed more on this....what a clumsy way to deal with the oil prices...issuing bonds will certainly lead to crowding out i suppose..not too sure though.....other thing which is interesting is..this bonds wont get slr status for  banks...
But basantjee..on second thought i dont think pm and fm has much degrees of freedom...if they dont do it,companies will bleed..if they go for price hike of petrol etc...comrades will flood the street with "Hamari maange....Aam aadmi pe atyachar ..bank strike...union strike...chaiwala going on strike " and wht not..
However...wht will solve this issue isnot economics but politics...if politicians muster the will to dismantle the APM in true sense and not introduce it thru backdoor....may be we have a way ahead..otherwise we will be consigned to hackenyed and ineffective policy measures of govt...
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 13/Oct/2006 at 7:46pm
What ever you say and I think. These gentlemen have compromised their education for politics. That is not done. You always have an option to resign if you are true to your ideology!
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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chic_1978
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Quote chic_1978 Replybullet Posted: 13/Oct/2006 at 9:43pm
But it's all dirty politics my friend...
 
dnt we all know how active is our FM's family members in stock market ???
 
dnt we all remember the crash in May 06..come on guys throw some light on this ....
happy & wise investing
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Quote manishdave Replybullet Posted: 13/Oct/2006 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by basant

You always have an option to resign if you are true to your ideology!
 
Very true Basant. PM/FM are not working as PHds or MBAs. They are leaders for country. What quality would you like in leaders? Somebody who does wrong things knowingly or stand up against force and do right things? If PM blasts commies and others and do right things, do you think left will withdraw? If they do that, PM would become hero.
 
I may sound strange, but IMO our PM gets more respect for his mastery of handling economy than he deserves. I am first one to admit that he is very honest person. He IS gentleman. But people always talk about PM as father of reforms and nobody talks about his blunders.
 
The reforms that he did was good job but it was out of compulsion and any govt had to do that. It was not rocket science. Even Pakistan had to import economist at the job.
 
Now let me talk about blunders.
I am not talking abt bank scam coz FM can may not be able to smell scams as there are individuals involved.
 
But when there was '91 bubble, Manmohanji actually believed the euphira. He never talked about bubble or did anything about that. And remember commodity stocks were trading at p/e of 60/70.
 
First we encouraged companies to put steel/sponge iron plants and then reduced import duties quickly before plants went into production creating huge bad loans and puting banking system trouble. The sequence of steps should have been upside down.
 
Then there was bubble again in '94 and Manmohanji didn't learn from previous experience. There were 30 IPO every single day and all kind of SATTAS were taking place with non-functional companies. Fly by night operators took flight at night - with people's money.
 
When they sold stocks of govt companies, they sold in bundles!! Have you ever heard of that, that if you want to buy pantaloon, you have to buy tisco and IPCL too? They said it was disinvestment, but most of those shares were given to UTI/Govt banks. So transferring assets from one pocket to another.
 
UTI fiasco. Less said batter.
 
After 5 years of Manmohanji as PM what was the state of economy? Int rates were at 18-20% and were were at one of the worst recession.
 
 
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 13/Oct/2006 at 12:11pm
Well said. As you write this I can revert back into history. And I think that SAIL was disinvested at Rs 160 odd!! and then we blamed the UTI for US64  no one said that they were made to buy the roses with the thorns. In fact the UTI was in a bad shape but I think that a much less educated Vajpayee was a better reformis (no politics intended here) then SMS (Sardar Man Mohan Singh) and PC (P.Chidambaram)
 
If Sonia would have been heading the Govt. we would have discounted the whole thing but this was not expected from SMS and PC.
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Quote wba5261 Replybullet Posted: 15/Oct/2006 at 1:53pm
Hello fellow Members and Basantji,
 
The problem lies with we Indians.We blame the government for making these Oil Marketing companies bleed, but then are we behaving responsibly. Are we trying to reduce the oil we consume.... how many have decided yo forego cars for bocycles ot publictransporta. Unfortunately, India is not China, where the people will unite in no time and shun oil if they see their country in problem. I am not patronising the politicians and have been a vehement critic of them but I dont like we indians react to crisis. weare so symbolic in our responses.... we are vocal but then we dont really know how to fight as a collective unit.
 
coming to Oil Bonds, I beleive the governement was left with no other alternative.May be trying to fool everybody for some time.
 
 
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