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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Topic: Infosys- A 3000 bagger.How we missed it?
    Posted: 04/Sep/2006 at 7:51pm

Infosys - A 3000 bagger. How did we miss it?

 

Over the past 13 years no company has been able to generate the kind of awe and respect that Infosys has. The company has grown 3000 times in terms of market cap. In hind sight we may kick ourselves for not being able to buy this stock but at that point in time Infosys remained a high priced stock and each time some one wanted to take an exposure he thought “ Isn’t everything discounted into the price?” and he stopped himself from buying.

 

I always cherish the opportunity of going through old financials and annual reports of stocks that have gone up 50 to 100 times. It helps me understand what factors I should have keep in mind while buying and which ones I could ignore for a while. I have included extracts from the Infosys annual report of 1999. Even if we had bought the stock at that time it would have been a ten bagger in 7 years. A CAGR of 37%.

 

 

How an initial investment of Rs 1 lac in Infosys at its IPO become Rs 32.13 crores.

Figures in (Rs crores)

February 1993

March 1998

March 1999

August 2006

Market capitalization

 

Rs 31.84

Rs 2963

Rs 9672

Rs 102,306

CAGR since IPO

82.22%

 

 

 

Figures in (Rs crores)

1999

1998

Total Sales

Rs 512.7

Rs260.03

Exports

Rs 500.20

Rs 250.93

Operating profit

Rs 191.74

Rs 88.61

Profit after Tax

Rs 132.91

Rs 60.36

 

 

 

 

 

Figures in (Rs crores)

1999

1998

1997

Sales Growth (%)

96.83%

81.05%

53.95%

Net profit growth (%)

120.19%

79.22&

60.31%

Operating Margin

37.40%

34.03%

34.81%

Operating Profit Growth (%)

116.39%

77.02%

47.43%

RoCE

63.51%%

46.09%

40.16%

RoE

54.16

42.24

34.96                       

EPS Growth (%)

120.19%

79.22&

60.31%

EPS

40.19

18.25

10.18

Market price

2924

896

488

Growth in market price

 

 

 

Last one year

226%

 

 

Since the IPO

302.77 times

92.06 times

N.A

PE Ratio

72.77

49.09

47.89

Price to Book

16.87

17.13

14.29

Dividend yield

0.13%

 

 

PE to EPS Growth (PEG)

0.61

0.62

0.79

 

 

As we read through the above extract of the Infosys annual report in 1999 a few questions arise. These questions which appear quite relevant hide the bigger picture. I have played the Devil’s Advocate” by putting up these questions (which in hindsight seem foolish) and then tried to answer them without any hindsight bias.

 

 

The Myth

The Blaster

It has gone up so much. How much can it go further? If you have the stock book profits when the going is good. 

Stocks that have gone up ten times can rise another thirty times and can rise another ten times.

 

Highly priced stocks cannot go up further. In March 1999 Infosys traded at Rs 2924

It went up ten times after that.

Never buy high Price to book stocks -The Price to Book is very high in 1999 (16.27 times).

But it was also high in 1997 (14.29) times) In between the stock went up a six times.

 

The mother of it all. At a PE of 72.77 times everything is discounted in the price. The PE has also expanded from 47.89 in 1997. That means that out of the six times the stock  went up in two years 1997 – 1999 2 times was due to a PE expansion

 

The PEG was still less then one. In fact the stock had become cheaper with the PEG falling from 0.79 in 1997 to 0.62 in 1999

Even if the PEG was less then 1 no company can grow at more then 100% so the growth in the PEG is flawed

Now Infosys was not a value pick it is a growth stock. Even if the growth continues for 2 years a 100 PE company falls down to a PE of 25.

You cannot get an Infosys every time. It is a one off

Cannot argue on that.

The dividend yield is a meager 0.13%.

As long as the company’s RoE is more then 20% dividends should not matter. A company with a yield of 4% goes down 25% you still lose 21%.

 

 

There were also a few very interesting things that the normal investor failed to realize

n        The RoE was expanding to 54.96% in 1999 from 34.96% in 1997

n        The RoCE was also in an expansion mode to 63.51% in 1999 from 40.16% in 1997.

n        The operating margins were also expanding from 37.40%   in  1999 from 34.81% in 1997

n        The high RoCE and RoE was inspte of maintaining a very high amount of money in cash. The return from liquid funds diluted the overall RoCE and RoE from cash invested in operations was significantly higher then what was reported.

 

The bottom-line is unless an investor could visualize how big software services could have been as an industry he could never have bought and kept an Infosys.

 
 Would love to have the opinion of anybody on the forum who bought and made big  money from Infosys. It would be a learning experience for if they could share with us what they thought was the real trigger for holding this Icon of indian technology


Edited by basant - 25/Sep/2006 at 6:35pm
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Quote reetesh Replybullet Posted: 04/Sep/2006 at 8:18pm
Franfly I didnt not bought because I was to young to know all this in 1993 I was 11yrs old then, but I always asked my father you guys bought all those sit(s) in 1992-93 that you your self dont know how the hell on earth you did`nt but atleast 100 infy shares, he just laughs at it, what can I say but its not only about money its about getting your thinking right the kind of pleasure that gives is immense, for me money is bi-product as far as stocks are concern. I bought Mphasis BFl in 2001 @ Rs. 17 adjusted for bonuses, after reading BPO research in wall street journal, Mphasis is first one into this, my call was right, I am still holding on and guys you all must be aware that EDS has taken over the company let me give you a brief back ground about EDS is it second largest software company in the world with revenues of $19 billions, I recently attended Mphasis AGM where EDS`s CEO was present and let me tell you if you trust them they have very big plans for Mphasis, the only think is I hope they don`t delist the company, they had no clear answer for this, why I am telling you all this because if you guys have missed INFY then this one is to look out for, I am keeping my finger crossed.
 
Regards,
 
Reetesh. 
When going gets tough, that’s when tough (people) gets going.
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 04/Sep/2006 at 8:28pm
I have been looking at mphasis rather closely these days and the EDS effect if any should creat a huge demand for this stock. A couple of quarters would be sluggish as al take overs  get into write offs ramping ups but from then it should be very good..This time period should be used in buying this stock.
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Quote reetesh Replybullet Posted: 04/Sep/2006 at 8:35pm
Correct, but once performance improve then it will creat  second round of wealth, another stock which is a take over target is Polaris, Capgemni is looking to buy an Indian software company I think Polaris would be an ideal fit for it, lets see.
When going gets tough, that’s when tough (people) gets going.
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Quote Ajith Replybullet Posted: 04/Sep/2006 at 11:05pm
I remember an interview with an investment banker( not Enam or connected with the public issue..he was a brilliant fellow in college)in 1996 in which he said that people dont understand the potential of Infosys.That is the crux of the matter .Only those with with long-term vision can see through the financials and it can be kept simple so that any one can see the potential.
  


Edited by Ajith - 04/Sep/2006 at 11:33pm
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Quote reetesh Replybullet Posted: 05/Sep/2006 at 6:00pm

Look to me we as country has lots of similarities of US one is Largest Democracy and another is largest democracy interms of GDP, per capita or to put it simply financially. We are follwing the same foot step as US interms of growth I am not talking about speed but I am talking about path that we are following and to look from stock market point of view we must read lot about what US was in say in 70s, 80s and 90s because we are at least that much behind US if we take comparision of these countries. Both economies strenght lies in PEOPLE of those respectives countries because we are growing our growth rate is more diversified than US but as we will move forward it will get concentrated but that is I think far of now. So the point is look read more, gather information about history because the beauty of the beast is to learn from history and invest for future but you will have to look back.

Regards,

Reetesh.

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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 05/Sep/2006 at 6:05pm
ABsolutely. "Golden words" because if we had discussed that buying a 70+ PE company is not all that bad we would have got a lot of frowns and disbeliefs  but when we look at the annual report of Infy it does appear how difficult it was to hold on at that high PE. So in times to come if we have read this discussion we would not just ignore a stock just bgecause it is at a high PE or high price to book.
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Quote xbox Replybullet Posted: 18/Dec/2006 at 7:24am
Well, I feel good promoter at right sector is correct combination. Bad promoter at correct sector were also good for short term (think of NIIT, HFCL, GTL and rest of midcap IT companies). Good promoter at bad sector never get it's due (may be Tata steel etc).
Just think of YES Bank now. There are other banks but then good promoter makes a difference between NIIT and INFYs of the world. Happy thanking ...


Edited by vipul - 18/Dec/2006 at 7:25am
Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.
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